Why is this top news? Spying!

[Raffles]

Apologies for this post... just had to get it off my chest. Plus it really is 'Off Topic' and nothing to do with 'vaping'.

The latest top of the news is the 'spying' on our electronic communications. Everyone is seemingly outraged at this revelation. Why? It's been going on for years... and keeping us safe.

Just wanted to say that I'd be outraged if they weren't doing it... I expect my liberty to be protected, and if the 'powers that be' have the ability to do this then I expect them to do it. If they overstep the mark, then we all know that 'people power' will always prevail.

The so called 'snooping charter' should go ahead... have you anything to worry about? Or... do you want anymore 'lunatics' creating havoc in the name of ******* (put your own excuse here).

It's obviously a 'quiet summer' for news and so anything that can cause a 'ripple' is blown up out of all proportion. They are called 'secret service' for a reason... 'secret'... and if we dabble into their affairs without 'reasonable cause' then we create problems for ourselves.

I do like James Bond movies, and while I doubt real life is quite like that, I do believe that there are sections of our Government doing 'what it takes' to keep us safe.

[Karma]

doesn't particularly worry me either Raffles

If they want to spy on my inane ramblings on here, fine by me

[Blownupdolly]

I agree. Got totally bored hearing LBC radio talking about it all day. I don't give a toss. In fact I am pleased!
But I guess journalists have to find something to do now that they can't hack phones and rake through people's bins.
Hang on....now there's a thought...they are in uproar at secret services spying to keep us safe but they thought it fine and dandy to hack people's phones more gossip and headline making. Bloody hypocrites.

[vereybowring]

I know they're not all that good at it anyway.
I've spent years reading stuff relating to quite complex scientific stuff about nuclear stuff as well as stuff like comparisons of RDX,ADR and fuel air explosives (blast properties, safety etc.)plus so much more. This is due to me being a rather obsessive researcher for role-playing games and treating my players to the delights that military technology can kill them with.

Never even had a quiet email or visit from the authorities.

[vereybowring]

Hang about is that the phone ringing and I can hear sirens. . . .

[Jen]

Every time we drove to my grandma's in Harrogate, we'd go past the old golfballs up on t'moors - this has been going on for much longer than the internet-related stuff.

The counterpoint to the 'if you've nothing to hide' argument is - where does it stop and how do you know? Where do you stop having rights as a citizen? It's a fine balancing act between the rights of the many and the rights of the few where all rights should technically be equal. Governmental espionage ('intelligence gathering') may intrude on your life - someone somewhere may think you might be a spy/terrorist/etc. Do you want to have to prove yourself innocent? How successful might you be? How much might it cost you? Just a little food for thought.

My mum lives in Germany - we sometimes amuse ourselves on the telephone by saying 'bomb' and waiting for that little click...

[womble]

The little click is nothing to do with someone listening in, not for the last 20 to 30 years at least.

If someone wanted to listen in, you wouldn't know about it.

Reference, telecoms engineer for 20 years.

[a1laserboy]

Maybe the journalists think it's important because of what snooping THEY do on the web?

The security services use more than just our online activity to flag up potential suspects. We are caught on more cctv cameras than anywhere else in europe - but nobody even notices that anymore. ANPR cameras all over the road network can track us in our cars, they can get information from our mobile phone network providers that can track our movements to within 100m accuracy.

But they don't care about us normal people who might occasionally download a pirated film, it takes up too much resources.......... i hope.

[genguskhan]

Just last week in Aberdeen there was a guy arrested under the anti-terrorism banner for downloading stuff, so maybe that is an example what they are looking for, rather than tracking dodgy films etc.

[giles]

I don't agree Raffles.

I just don't trust the government that much, and the US government even less. Are you old enough to remember Richard Nixon? Reginald Maulding? Either of them would have used this stuff to help cover up what they did.

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/10/edward-snowden-united-stasi-america explains it quite well.

[oxo]

Jun 10, 2013 21:35:48 GMT Raffles said:

Apologies for this post... just had to get it off my chest. Plus it really is 'Off Topic' and nothing to do with 'vaping'.

The latest top of the news is the 'spying' on our electronic communications. Everyone is seemingly outraged at this revelation. Why? It's been going on for years... and keeping us safe.

Just wanted to say that I'd be outraged if they weren't doing it... I expect my liberty to be protected, and if the 'powers that be' have the ability to do this then I expect them to do it. If they overstep the mark, then we all know that 'people power' will always prevail.

The so called 'snooping charter' should go ahead... have you anything to worry about? Or... do you want anymore 'lunatics' creating havoc in the name of ******* (put your own excuse here).

It's obviously a 'quiet summer' for news and so anything that can cause a 'ripple' is blown up out of all proportion. They are called 'secret service' for a reason... 'secret'... and if we dabble into their affairs without 'reasonable cause' then we create problems for ourselves.

I do like James Bond movies, and while I doubt real life is quite like that, I do believe that there are sections of our Government doing 'what it takes' to keep us safe.

In America people with political views that differ from the government as-well as reporters that have reported unfavourably on the government have been targeted by their tax man. Spying on electronic data was not used to protect those people it was used to target them.
Here in the UK there has been a huge blacklist used by Balfour Beatty, Mcalpines and a list of other large construction firms denying work to people for things as trivial as being in a union or interested in environmental issues. Data used to compile the list came off police and security services.
We now have people trolling Ecig forums to gauge the health risks that may come along with there use. No doubt they will buy the data they need to fit the results they are after off the same security services that are collecting all our personal data for our own safety and well being.
They will never get my blessing or consent.

[fiddles]

We all (well most of us) use 2 of the biggest spies there is on a daily basis, Google & Facebook. It is quite frightening at times the amount you are monitored, My only concern here is how laws designed for anti terrorism are being used, I remember reading a while back how certain councils had used such laws to install speed cameras using such new laws ( cameras were not in accident hotspots etc they was installed to make money) & what happens to such data i.e sold to marketing companies. The age old excuse if you have nothing to hide why worry does not cut it nowadays we all have a right to certain amount of privacy, there is a fine line between protecting us and being blatantly trying to control us.

[Jen]

Jun 11, 2013 0:25:49 GMT womble said:

The little click is nothing to do with someone listening in, not for the last 20 to 30 years at least.

If someone wanted to listen in, you wouldn't know about it.

Reference, telecoms engineer for 20 years.

Well that's odd then, cos it happens!

[greendollar]

It's not about having nothing to hide , it's about not being anyone else's bloody business .

Not worried that governments are compiling huge amounts of personal information about you then perhaps you should be .

•Take the extreme example of Khalid El-Masri. This German national was kidnapped, flown to Afghanistan, tortured and then eventually released when it was realised that his was a case of mistaken identity, and he was not in fact an alleged terrorist with a similar name.
•In 2007, junior doctors found their personal information - including sexual orientation - published on the Internet in a web security breach. How many of those individuals were 'outed' as a result of that breach? Those who had kept their orientation secret from their families or colleagues were perfectly at rights to do so, but found it released anyway.

•In 2006 a student was wrongfully arrested for stealing mail when a batch of letters were recovered. His fingerprints - which had been taken a year previously when he was accused of criminal damage but released without charge after the real culprit confessed - matched those on some of the letters. After his arrest it was discovered that the letters bearing his fingerprints were posted by him. He was released, and then had to campaign to have his DNA data removed from the National DNA Database.
•Time and again individuals have been fired from jobs, or failed to get jobs, because of errors in the Criminal Records Bureau database. They have been stigmatised as criminals, even to the extent of being falsely branded as sex offenders, because of database failings.

[suede]

Exactly