Autumn Statement - Pensions...

[Raffles]

Mods, I don't want this to turn into a political bunfight, just a discussion.

As most who have seen the news today, the pension age is going to increase at a faster rate than first proposed. Young people today are looking at 70 before they can be eligible. I've been drawing mine for a couple of years which has enabled me to cut my hours down to just 2 days a week, which suits me, for financial and personal reasons.

However, for most of my working life I was in management, sat at a desk, with very little physical requirements, someone else did that! At the age of 60 I had to find something else, and as everyone knows, although no-one in power admits, there is age discrimination. So, I took a job in a supermarket, unloading vehicles and breaking all the pallets down ready for the shop floor. Now, don't get me wrong, I love the company and my colleagues... BUT there is no way I could physically do this full time until I was 70.

So, do the powers in charge (regardless of political colour) think that just because life expectancy has increased, that we are all sat behind a desk... those that are doing a physical job, and there are far more demanding jobs than mine, could keep going until 70. I really do despair for the next generations.

[Karma]

Indeed Raffles

my daughter, 26 and sat behind a desk thinks that by the time she can retire instead of getting a gold watch there will be a coffin waiting outside the office door for her to step into

keeping people working longer just gives less opportunities to our young people, it just doesn't make sense

[Super-Shiny]

I ain't gonna reach that age anyway   

[Greg]

If I had any advice to give to a youngster starting out it would be not to rely on the state and start your own or company pension as soon as possible. Anything from the state should be looked upon as an unguaranteed bonus.

[upgrader]

Manual workers will never see retirement
The people who are proposing these changes have never done a days work in their lives and this makes my blood boil, all very well to sit in a heated office all day, just try doing a 3 shift system and working nights in the dead of winter.

They know damn well a good proportion of those who do manual work will die long b4 they retire......nice little earner for HMG on your NI contributions thank you.

[Raffles]

Dec 5, 2013 22:56:32 GMT upgrader said:

Manual workers will never see retirement
The people who are proposing these changes have never done a days work in their lives and this makes my blood boil, all very well to sit in a heated office all day, just try doing a 3 shift system and working nights in the dead of winter.

They know damn well a good proportion of those who do manual work will die long b4 they retire......nice little earner for HMG on your NI contributions thank you.

My point exactly!

[Deleted]

There aren't enough jobs for the current 16 - 65 year old workforce so where are the extra jobs going to come from for a 16 - 70 year old work force?

Rather than raising the retirement age they should be lowering it so that those oldies who wish to retire from a physically demanding or stressful job can do so and as a consequence provide much needed jobs for the fit and willing 16 - 24 year olds who are unable to get full time work.

[Blownupdolly]

It's not just manual workers either. Look at nursing. On your feet all day and night. Mr Dolly being in forensic psychiatry has done the job for 30yrs plus. He is 54 now. Already his knees are giving up to arthritis. Over the years he has had to grapple with people in a violent, psychotic episode, fighting them to the ground to contain them. What chance would he stand aged 70 dealing with a 21yr old schizophrenic? None!!

These people live in cuckoo land. Surely we have the right to rest our bones having worked for 50yrs? Surely a little happiness and time to ourselves? According to them,no. Work till we drop is our fate, even though it was THEM and their banking cronies who stole the pension pots.

They make me sick.

[Phoenix .]

Super-Shiny...I said that when I was your age...so glad I was wrong

[Deleted]

Dec 6, 2013 8:28:11 GMT Blownupdolly said:

It's not just manual workers either. Look at nursing. On your feet all day and night. Mr Dolly being in forensic psychiatry has done the job for 30yrs plus. He is 54 now. Already his knees are giving up to arthritis. Over the years he has had to grapple with people in a violent, psychotic episode, fighting them to the ground to contain them. What chance would he stand aged 70 dealing with a 21yr old schizophrenic? None!!

These people live in cuckoo land. Surely we have the right to rest our bones having worked for 50yrs? Surely a little happiness and time to ourselves? According to them,no. Work till we drop is our fate, even though it was THEM and their banking cronies who stole the pension pots.

They make me sick.

Exactly Dolly, while the wankers bankers are able to retire at 45 with their obscene private pension pots that they accumulated through huge bonuses and insider trading. 

[greendollar]

I'm not worried about it , if the elite carry on taking & the disparity between rich & poor continues at the rate it is it won't belong before they'll be swinging from the lamp posts

[giles]

Sorry to strike a discordant note, but people are living longer and longer (my elder son, who makes a profession of predicting high tech developments, thinks there's a fair chance his grandchildren will be immortal).

And we can't expect to pay for 100 years of life while working less than 50 of them (unless, of course, we are rich bastards). And yes, there are jobs that 70-year olds are physically incapable of doing (though people are also getting fitter). But somehow we, well, our kids actually, have to solve that problem - maybe by kicking the 30-year olds out of desk jobs to leave them for the wrinklies - or they won't be able to pay for the health care to keep themselves alive.

[Deleted]

Dec 6, 2013 10:28:32 GMT giles said:

Sorry to strike a discordant note, but people are living longer and longer (my elder son, who makes a profession of predicting high tech developments, thinks there's a fair chance his grandchildren will be immortal).

And we can't expect to pay for 100 years of life while working less than 50 of them (unless, of course, we are rich bastards). And yes, there are jobs that 70-year olds are physically incapable of doing (though people are also getting fitter). But somehow we, well, our kids actually, have to solve that problem - maybe by kicking the 30-year olds out of desk jobs to leave them for the wrinklies - or they won't be able to pay for the health care to keep themselves alive.

And retrain the 30 year old university graduates to be scaffolders, bricklayers, roof tilers etc?  ....  Yeah that sounds like a plan 

[giles]

Dec 6, 2013 11:16:08 GMT @freefromsmoking said:

And retrain the 30 year old university graduates to be scaffolders, bricklayers, roof tilers etc?  ....  Yeah that sounds like a plan 

Well, you'd make them do the manual work before uni rather than after, wouldn't you? In real life the rich will probably continue to be able make sure their kids don't have to do manual labour. But there are plenty of young people behind desks who aren't amongst the rich & overqualified.

The real problem isn't training the young, it is retraining the old. Finding the scaffolders and bricklayers work that provides some satisfaction, dignity and income, even if it isn't what they used to have.

You write as if there was a choice. There isn't, except for dying younger. There aren't any easy answers, but some will have to be found.

[Deleted]

Dec 6, 2013 13:23:44 GMT giles said:

Dec 6, 2013 11:16:08 GMT @freefromsmoking said:

And retrain the 30 year old university graduates to be scaffolders, bricklayers, roof tilers etc?  ....  Yeah that sounds like a plan 

Well, you'd make them do the manual work before uni rather than after, wouldn't you? In real life the rich will probably continue to be able make sure their kids don't have to do manual labour. But there are plenty of young people behind desks who aren't amongst the rich & overqualified.

The real problem isn't training the young, it is retraining the old. Finding the scaffolders and bricklayers work that provides some satisfaction, dignity and income, even if it isn't what they used to have.

You write as if there was a choice. There isn't, except for dying younger. There aren't any easy answers, but some will have to be found.

giles  ... my post was only a tongue in cheek response to your post and I hope you don't think that I was having a dig  ...  but let's be serious here for a minute  ..
no amount of retraining older people or making young people do manual work before uni will change the fact that there are no jobs and making those that are fortunate enough to have a job work on an extra five years until retirement will do nothing but exacerbate the situation.