Battery experts please.......

[sleedale]

Oh blummin heck......did the tab thing, scooby and that's what it came up with.............

Off to edit ............right now

[Deleted]

Dec 1, 2014 20:13:26 GMT sleedale said:

Dec 1, 2014 20:03:02 GMT @scooby said:

You'd do worse than the Samsung INR 25R From Ecolux sleedale they should fulfill your requirements. If you're not sure tell Ecolux what you want and ask for their recommendations.

Thanks @schoolboy, I'll have a look at those, have bought from ecolux before 

sooooooooooo sorry, @scooby, no idea what happened there  

I'm flattered, I have a senior railcard but a couple of years to wait for my bus pass. Still carry a mouse in a matchbox and a piece of string in my shorts pocket though  

[sleedale]

Dec 1, 2014 21:09:40 GMT @scooby said:

Dec 1, 2014 20:13:26 GMT sleedale said:

Thanks @schoolboy, I'll have a look at those, have bought from ecolux before 

sooooooooooo sorry, @scooby, no idea what happened there   *sorry*P

I'm flattered, I have a senior railcard but a couple of years to wait for my bus pass. Still carry a mouse in a matchbox and a piece of string in my shorts pocket though  

Sound like my type of guy, especially the mouse in a  matchbox bit

[Deleted]

Well I can return the larger diameter purple efest with "no guarantee" the others will be smaller, athough all the other efest batteries I have are fine, including the 4 smaller purples.

To be honest for £12 I can't be bothered returning, although purchased for my mechs I can prob use them in my hana etc. where's there is space.

So done with torchy and efest and off to find some others for my mechs, might just go with the sony VTC4.

[robby]

You could strip the plastic off and use this stuff, perfect size for 18650 batteries and cheap as chips, it`s heat shrink sleeving   2M for 70P

You shrink it with a hair dryer

www.fasttech.com/products/0/10004244/1334308-single-18650-battery-pvc-heat-shrink-tubing-green

[Dan]

Dec 1, 2014 18:42:46 GMT sleedale said:

Batteries completely flummox me.........I want safe ones, ones that last as long as possible before needing charging, and at a good price (not necessarily the cheapest just good honest price) and from a trusted vendor who hasn't swapped rubbish for supposedly good or ok, and I'm still no blummin wiser.
I assumed efest were good, then I learn they arent especially good, I bought from Torchy, assume they are ok but will probably be overstated?
I only use them for the vtr, but I STILL don't know which and from where.
Maybe some clever person could do a chart, similar to the atomiser size one, of batteries, vendors and suitable devices? But I appreciate that things change so quickly and vendors also seem to change it would be very complicated to set up.
So maybe I'll just stay flummoxed

This isn't fully up to date with the newer cells but may just help.

battery chart

[sleedale]

Thank you Dan, it does make some sense, still a bit flummoxed though

[Dan]

Dec 2, 2014 18:03:39 GMT sleedale said:

Thank you Dan, it does make some sense, still a bit flummoxed though

What is it you're flummoxed about?

See if this helps..

The VTR can fire anything from 0.7? upwards and has a 5amp limit.

The maximum it's chipset can fire is 6 volts @ 15 watts.

So as an example of a low build, 0.7? @ 15w would output 3.24v and would need to draw 4.63amps from the battery.

No where near the voltage limit but quite close to the amperage limit.

This in turn would mean the batteries are being worked reasonably hard and thus battery life per charge wouldn't be great.

If you build a higher build, the amperage needed from the battery is lower and thus you will get more time out of a charged cell.

The perfect build to get the full potential from the VTR's chip would be a single coil reading 2.4?. This allows you to use the full 6v @ 15w.

So. 2.4? @ 15w would output 6v and would need to draw 2.5amps from the battery.

See how the amps have dropped with the higher resistance?

The battery life will improve with a higher ? build as they don't need to output as much amperage at once.


So, all in all, as long as you batteries with a constant amp rating of 5amps and above, you'll be fine!

I've used several cells in mine.

I've used the Torchy 2600mah flattops. Perfect for 2.5amps and will give you good capacity throughout. These are rewrapped Samsung ICR cells. Good for regulated mods needing low amps.

These cells however ARE NOT suitable for low resistance builds.

The main cell I tend to use though is the Panasonic NCR18650PF.

This cell is good for 10amp constant and so gives masses of headroom for the VTR's maximum needs. As far as life per charge. You'll get a usable 2500mah @5amp so similar to the Torchy cell @2amp

Out of the two cells, i would recommend the Panasonics for your usage.

Does that help clear things up?

[VapingBad]

Dec 3, 2014 9:59:57 GMT Dan said:

Dec 2, 2014 18:03:39 GMT sleedale said:

Thank you Dan, it does make some sense, still a bit flummoxed though

What is it you're flummoxed about?

See if this helps..

The VTR can fire anything from 0.7? upwards and has a 5amp limit.

The maximum it's chipset can fire is 6 volts @ 15 watts.

So as an example of a low build, 0.7? @ 15w would output 3.24v and would need to draw 4.63amps from the battery.

No where near the voltage limit but quite close to the amperage limit.

This in turn would mean the batteries are being worked reasonably hard and thus battery life per charge wouldn't be great.

If you build a higher build, the amperage needed from the battery is lower and thus you will get more time out of a charged cell.

The perfect build to get the full potential from the VTR's chip would be a single coil reading 2.4?. This allows you to use the full 6v @ 15w.

So. 2.4? @ 15w would output 6v and would need to draw 2.5amps from the battery.

See how the amps have dropped with the higher resistance?

The battery life will improve with a higher ? build as they don't need to output as much amperage at once.


So, all in all, as long as you batteries with a constant amp rating of 5amps and above, you'll be fine!

I've used several cells in mine.

I've used the Torchy 2600mah flattops. Perfect for 2.5amps and will give you good capacity throughout. These are rewrapped Samsung ICR cells. Good for regulated mods needing low amps.

These cells however ARE NOT suitable for low resistance builds.

The main cell I tend to use though is the Panasonic NCR18650PF.

This cell is good for 10amp constant and so gives masses of headroom for the VTR's maximum needs. As far as life per charge. You'll get a usable 2500mah @5amp so similar to the Torchy cell @2amp

Out of the two cells, i would recommend the Panasonics for your usage.

Does that help clear things up?

I don't disagree with your battery recommendation, but like a lot of people are you are under a misconception about battery usage in a VV/VW set up.  Simply put it's watts in watts out, less 5-10% efficiency loss from the electronics and the current (as long as you are well within safety limits) doesn't make any difference.  A lot of people also mistakenly think that you get higher power from vv/vw mod using low resistance.  Draing your battery at close to its current limit will mean it needs more time to recover between puffs and probably stresses the battery more.

In both you're 15 w examples the drain on the battery would be the same even though the output is different:

EG1: "0.7? @ 15w would output 3.24v and would need to draw 4.63amps from the battery" that would output 3.63 A @ 3.24 V, but ignoring the inefficiency from a 4 V battery that would only require 4.13 A.

EG2: "2.4? @ 15w would output 6v and would need to draw 2.5amps from the battery" that would output 2.5 A @ 6 V, but ignoring the inefficiency from a 4 V battery that would still require 4.13 A ,  I = sqrt(P/V) .

If the battery is low, say 3.5 V than 15 W would require current from the battery 4.28 A and add 10% for inefficiency we get close to 5 A, so completely agree a 10 A battery will perform well in this mod.

I am not trying to have a pop at you and as I said a lot of people have this wrong so I thought it was important to correct it.

[Tom]

In a mech or ego style, more ohms means less wattage, meaning more battery life.

15watts at any ohms is 15w, will mean the same battery life from the same battery, do I have that right VapingBad?

[jevans]

Your battery life is directly proportional to the current (Amps) drawn!

[VapingBad]

Dec 3, 2014 11:42:28 GMT Tom said:

In a mech or ego style, more ohms means less wattage, meaning more battery life.

15watts at any ohms is 15w, will mean the same battery life from the same battery, do I have that right VapingBad?

Pretty much and in practical terms yes just add 10% extra watts needed from the battery to allow for any inefficiency in the conversion circuit.  There is probably differences in the efficiency of the conversion circuit when you work it harder and if it had both steep up and step down I would expect you could get very efficient from PWM step down especially as you would measure watts as a constant mean PWM from the battery and RMS PWM on the output.

E: the last part of the last sentence is a guess off the top of my head and although it makes sense because RMS is used to make up for the heat retained between pulses in the coil I could be completely wrong.

[VapingBad]

Dec 3, 2014 11:50:00 GMT jevans said:

Your battery life is directly proportional to the current (Amps) drawn!

Yes, but the current is different on each side of the converter circuit so the current taken from the battery can be very different from the current delivered to the atty.

Say you take 10 W from the battery, 1 W is lost from thermal inefficiency for the converter circuit leaving 9 W for your atty.
The 10 W will always be at the voltage of the battery, say 4 V @ 2.5 A, but this could give 9 W at the atty as 9 V @ 1 A, 6 V @ 1.5 A or 3 V @ 3 A

[Dan]

Dec 3, 2014 11:37:25 GMT VapingBad said:

Dec 3, 2014 9:59:57 GMT Dan said:

What is it you're flummoxed about?

See if this helps..

The VTR can fire anything from 0.7? upwards and has a 5amp limit.

The maximum it's chipset can fire is 6 volts @ 15 watts.

So as an example of a low build, 0.7? @ 15w would output 3.24v and would need to draw 4.63amps from the battery.

No where near the voltage limit but quite close to the amperage limit.

This in turn would mean the batteries are being worked reasonably hard and thus battery life per charge wouldn't be great.

If you build a higher build, the amperage needed from the battery is lower and thus you will get more time out of a charged cell.

The perfect build to get the full potential from the VTR's chip would be a single coil reading 2.4?. This allows you to use the full 6v @ 15w.

So. 2.4? @ 15w would output 6v and would need to draw 2.5amps from the battery.

See how the amps have dropped with the higher resistance?

The battery life will improve with a higher ? build as they don't need to output as much amperage at once.


So, all in all, as long as you batteries with a constant amp rating of 5amps and above, you'll be fine!

I've used several cells in mine.

I've used the Torchy 2600mah flattops. Perfect for 2.5amps and will give you good capacity throughout. These are rewrapped Samsung ICR cells. Good for regulated mods needing low amps.

These cells however ARE NOT suitable for low resistance builds.

The main cell I tend to use though is the Panasonic NCR18650PF.

This cell is good for 10amp constant and so gives masses of headroom for the VTR's maximum needs. As far as life per charge. You'll get a usable 2500mah @5amp so similar to the Torchy cell @2amp

Out of the two cells, i would recommend the Panasonics for your usage.

Does that help clear things up?

I don't disagree with your battery recommendation, but like a lot of people are you are under a misconception about battery usage in a VV/VW set up.  Simply put it's watts in watts out, less 5-10% efficiency loss from the electronics and the current (as long as you are well within safety limits) doesn't make any difference.  A lot of people also mistakenly think that you get higher power from vv/vw mod using low resistance.  Draing your battery at close to its current limit will mean it needs more time to recover between puffs and probably stresses the battery more.

In both you're 15 w examples the drain on the battery would be the same even though the output is different:

EG1: "0.7? @ 15w would output 3.24v and would need to draw 4.63amps from the battery" that would output 3.63 A @ 3.24 V, but ignoring the inefficiency from a 4 V battery that would only require 4.13 A.

EG2: "2.4? @ 15w would output 6v and would need to draw 2.5amps from the battery" that would output 2.5 A @ 6 V, but ignoring the inefficiency from a 4 V battery that would still require 4.13 A ,  I = sqrt(P/V) .

If the battery is low, say 3.5 V than 15 W would require current from the battery 4.28 A and add 10% for inefficiency we get close to 5 A, so completely agree a 10 A battery will perform well in this mod.

I am not trying to have a pop at you and as I said a lot of people have this wrong so I thought it was important to correct it.

I used ohms law to get the amperages. So am i right in thinking that although this is an ok method for mechanical devices, but not vv/vw devices as we need their step down/up taken into consideration?

"I'm the weakest link.. goodbye"

[robby]

Dec 1, 2014 19:40:13 GMT gill2009 said:

Dec 1, 2014 18:42:46 GMT sleedale said:

Batteries completely flummox me.........I want safe ones, ones that last as long as possible before needing charging, and at a good price (not necessarily the cheapest just good honest price) and from a trusted vendor who hasn't swapped rubbish for supposedly good or ok, and I'm still no blummin wiser.
I assumed efest were good, then I learn they arent especially good, I bought from Torchy, assume they are ok but will probably be overstated?
I only use them for the vtr, but I STILL don't know which and from where.
Maybe some clever person could do a chart, similar to the atomiser size one, of batteries, vendors and suitable devices? But I appreciate that things change so quickly and vendors also seem to change it would be very complicated to set up.
So maybe I'll just stay flummoxed

 I'll join you on the flummoxed step sleedale 

There you go ladies, what could be simpler ? , any more room on that flummoxed step ?