Nicotine strength news

[womble]

I'm reading the bumf on Nicodex.......


Nicadex is a hand-held device that delivers purified nicotine to the user through the vaporisation of a pharmaceutical-grade solution of nicotine. A rechargeable lithium battery powers the vaporiser that instantly turns the nicotine solution into a vapour that is inhaled by the user. Many users report that the sensation of using the Nicadex device is similar to smoking, but the vapour contains no smoke and none of the carbon monoxide, tar or thousands of toxic impurities that make smoking tobacco products so damaging to health. In addition, since there is no smoke, there are no smoke by-products that can cause “second-hand” harm to others.

And I can't see the difference between this and an e-cig, is it that there is no flavouring in it? Just nicotine. Isn't this very close to the new NRT coming out from BAT?

I'm not sure I like the way this is going.

[maccafan]

The nicadex:



medgadget.com/2012/01/nicadex-device-may-become-part-of-formal-smoking-cessation-therapy.html

It's an e-cig. Period.

But it's going to be submitted for clinical trials which is great. A lot more credible research into nicotine absorption rates is round the corner and the wider acceptance that comes with it, which can only be good.

[womble]

But wasn't Hifi talkign about if something like this became a NRT, then we could easily see a ban of all other e-cigs? Or something like that. Or have I again got the wrong end of the stick?

[maccafan]

Mar 10, 2012 21:27:49 GMT womble said:

But wasn't Hifi talkign about if something like this became a NRT, then we could easily see a ban of all other e-cigs? Or something like that. Or have I again got the wrong end of the stick?

I think it'll only mean e-cigs cannot be sold as NRT..But they aren't though. They are sold as a recreational product. But it might bring with it some measure of regulation which may or may not be so good.

[hifistud]

There's actually a bit more to it than at first shows its face - Dave Kitson will be covering this on his show on Sunday, I think - but the confluence of two separate timelines may not be to our advantage. At the moment, there is no other credible recreational alternative to smoking than e-cigs. However, as soon as either Nicoventures gets their MA for a recreational device OR Intellicig gets the Nicadex its MA, there is an approved "acceptable alternative" available. With BOTH products on the market, MHRA will be much more minded to take on every non approved device and its vendor(s). All the signs are there...

[hifistud]

Mar 10, 2012 21:25:52 GMT maccafan said:

The nicadex:



medgadget.com/2012/01/nicadex-device-may-become-part-of-formal-smoking-cessation-therapy.html

It's an e-cig. Period.

But it's going to be submitted for clinical trials which is great. A lot more credible research into nicotine absorption rates is round the corner and the wider acceptance that comes with it, which can only be good.

Quite the reverse, depending on where you sit. With an MHRA approved product on the market, MHRA has a reason to serve take-down notices on all non-approved devices and juices. That is decidedly NOT good.

[maccafan]

MHRA can only serve a take-down notice on those devices that are marketed as NRT and not those sold as a recreational product. So once this is approved are they going to ban cigarettes too?

If they approve this as NRT then the NHS will have to offer it as a choice in the quit kit which means it's free to aspriring quitters or as a prescription. I doubt the NHS has that much funds or that the Government will approve this.

Credible research into effects of inhaling vapourised nicotine is most definitely GOOD as we are very much in the dark as to the long term effects. In the 40's and 50's people ate radium and smoked ciggies as they were marketed as "healthy" products. Where are we now?

History often repeats itself and there are very few "alternatives" that come at no price.

[hifistud]

Mar 10, 2012 23:43:12 GMT maccafan said:

MHRA can only serve a take-down notice on those devices that are marketed as NRT and not those sold as a recreational product. So once this is approved are they going to ban cigarettes too?

The original consultation, as flawed as it was, is actually still running - it is merely extended to allow for further research and evidence. As part of that, the MHRA seeks to classify ALL e-cigs and juice as drug delivery devices and drugs. They can do this if various criteria are met individually. One of the criteria is that the generally held view is that a (potential)"drug" is viewed as having a medicinal purpose - in this case, that the majority of people see e-cigs as being used for quitting smoking. You only have to read this forum to see that that is, in large part, the case.

If they approve this as NRT then the NHS will have to offer it as a choice in the quit kit which means it's free to aspriring quitters or as a prescription. I doubt the NHS has that much funds or that the Government will approve this.

Unfortunately, CNC, the folks behind Nicadex and Intellicig already have a three year contract to do exactly that. And they'll have an MA to do exactly that - so, be default, e-cigs will become a smoking cessation device, whether marketed as such or not.

Credible research into effects of inhaling vapourised nicotine is most definitely GOOD as we are very much in the dark as to the long term effects. In the 40's and 50's people ate radium and smoked ciggies as they were marketed as "healthy" products. Where are we now?

No arguments there - all research provides more information - assuming, of course, that it is of better quality than the FDA's first foray, and assuming that it is not the kind of pseudo-science we are all too often seeing these days to maximise Pharma profits. I would disagree that we're in the dark about the long-term effects of inhaling nicotine. Its effects are well known - but it does have to be emphasised that they are most certainly not the same effects as from smoking tobacco

History often repeats itself and there are very few "alternatives" that come at no price.

Possibly, but I abhor the nanny state and having my personal freedoms constantly eroded. My body, my choice.

[maccafan]

Fair enough Hifi, however I do not share your pessimism about it. Give me one example of where this has happened in the past.

I somehow doubt that a threaded connector stuck at the end of a battery is going to be banned because of the way people choose to use to it, simply because it's impractical to impose it.

I meant to write "long term effects of inhaling vapourised PG" and not "nicotine" in my earlier post so apologies. I understand that it's your body and your choice, and most people are not dissimilar and I dislike the nanny state as much as you seem to do, but wouldn't you rather make an informed choice by having a serious agency carry out and evaluate research on this subject?

Do you think people would have made the choice to work with that most wonderful of materials and the solution to all problems material called asbestos and lived under it, ate from it and practically wallowed in it, if they knew what it did? I personally welcome any serious research into this.

I would also be open to regulation as the industry right now is almost self-regulated but you will always have the rogues out to make a quick buck at the cost of people's health.

[Tetsab]

There's already thorough research been carried out into inhaling PG vapour going back to the 1940's, when they were considering using it in hospital wards for infection control due to the antibacterial & antiviral properties of PG. No harmful effects were found from prolonged exposure (months) in extremely heavy concentrations.

The unknown is the effect of inhaling flavourings - all 'food safe' if you swallow then digest them - but of course we don't do that. I fall back to the position that by comparison with the known damage caused by inhaling combustion products ain't no way this can be worse!

I'm just hoping/praying that ECITA's approach of co-operating with Trading Standards and compliance with their 'Standards of Excellence' will prove sufficiently robust to withstand any suggestions that we still require yet more legislation to "protect us".

Any new vendors could honestly do much worse than look into joining up as soon as they are able to do so for their own protection as much as any other reason. It will certainly save them a lot of effort and potentially very costs involved in finding things out the hard way. As a consumer, ECITA's standards seem more than robust enough for me and should provide any vapers purchasing from their members with reassurance regarding their products.

[maccafan]

Yeah, I did read that research on PG vapour by Oswald Robertson. I did post about it a month ago too.

Edit added link:

allaboute-cigarettes.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=promoting&thread=4836&page=1#109780

But vapourising PG over a heated coil which is capable of boiling water ie., over 100 degrees may alter it chemically. Another thing is PG gets converted to lactic acid in our body which is the main chemical responsible for muscles cramping when we get tired as I understand it. So what is the effect of dumping large quantities of PG in our lungs? Thing is, I don't know but I would like to, from a trustworthy source.

If e-cig becomes accepted as NRT my thinking is that it will only gain wider acceptance and add credence to what most of the vapring community have been saying all along. In my opinion that's a not a bad thing at all. And if they offer it for free as part of a quit kit, I'll be in the line to get one.

At the end of the day I did take it up to give up smoking. I know that this is not necessarily the case with others who enjoy it and want to continue, not that I don't enjoy the flavours.

[kirsty0108]

Yep ciggies still on display in Scottish Tesco's. The more I think about it the more I think its actually a good idea. As someone who has not quite given smoking I can see a day in the not to distant future when I have given up and used up/got rid of/binned the fags I have left where I may be in a supermarket having a rubbish day, maybe I forgot to take my e-cig to work with me that day and I see the cig counter and think yep I could totally have a fag right now. So I go and buy a packet and down the slippery slope. I would imagine that to the occasional smoker the visual stimulant of actually seeing the Cig counter might be enough to draw them to buy a packet the more often they see that attraction the more likely they are to become a habitual smoker so the "nanny" state may well have a point after all!

Vis-a-vis conta arguement regarding the long term effects of e-liquid on your well-being I think there is a whole host of evidence from our forum that in the short-term its has a beneficial effect on health , longer term remains to be seen but I am 99.9% certain that it will prove to be far less harmful! The problem is per Macca's point above that tobacco has been smoked for over 2000 years and for over 500 years in western society and we've only just discovered how harmful it is to health www.tobacco.org/History/Tobacco_History.html .

[Karma]

I'm surprised that none of the Vendors have commented on this. If vaping became too tightly regulated then it would have a detrimental effect on their business?

If i could only have a c*ap cig-a-like then I'm pretty sure I would find myself back on the nasties!

[cigeliquid]

You dont go spending This sort of money
with out an agenda.

CN Creative, Ltd. out of Manchester, UK has raised £2 million ($3.1 million) to help bring to market its Nicadex electronic inhaler for nicotine replacement therapy. The device, which delivers vaporized pharmaceutical-grade nicotine, looks to be very much like a typical e-cigarette, but will undergo clinical trials and is planned to be used as a part of a wider smoking cessation therapy approach.

My guess would be if this device gets classified as a NRT device then it follows that it must also contain a NRT aproved liquid.
That would make all other e-liquids also NRT products
that would group all other e-liquids in with fake medicine from china.
I have no doubt for the payment of many hundred thousand pounds per year on a possibly deliberately complexed in-house government regulated testing proceeder it would be posible for venders to have each batch of e- liquid tested and approved as NRT Standard.
I see 2 million as very small investment to take total control of the UK market.
making all other e-liquids illegal to sell
Once the market is controlled it can be sold for billions to big tobacco then expanded or buried

[Karma]

Looks like very bad news