Online sale age restriction 18+ proof now required UK

[Deleted]

How to kill off the ECig availability to the masses in one fell swoop. Stinks of a stitch up imo.

[phatfil]

Not april 1st is it??

If this is the law

Min purchase Age verification - No sales Under 18

It is an offence under section 1 of the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981 to make a false instrument with the intention to use it to induce a person to accept it as genuine, and by reason of so accepting it to do or not to do some act which is to their own or any other person’s prejudice.

The Prejudice in this case will be a fine off £2500 if I am to sell to Under 18s

that the OP is basing the need for documentry proof of age.

since it dates back to 1981 i think the current, annoying pop up yes/no age verification, employed by all age restricted sites, and tagging appropriately for all net nanny esq parental guardian s/w to ID has proven more than sufficient. If legislation passed more recently is applicable ? wats that then?

And perhaps more crucially

The Prejudice in this case will be a fine off £2500 if I am to sell to Under 18s

probably applies when it can be proven that you knowingly sold to someone you knew was misrepresenting themselves as over 18 when not..

if in doubt seek legal advice tho

[snow]

Lots of useful info here about what is and isnt likely to be acceptable age verification: www.businesscompanion.info/en/quick-guides/underage-sales/online-sales-of-age-restricted-products

PAYMENT BY CREDIT CARD

At the moment, credit cards are generally available only to those over 18. Payment or verification of the purchaser using a credit (as opposed to a debit) card could serve to verify that the principal cardholder for the credit card is over 18.

AGE VERIFICATION ON DELIVERY

Retailers could use age verification checks at the point of delivery by ensuring that delivery drivers request a valid proof of age to confirm that the purchaser is over the minimum age to buy the product in question. It should be noted that third-party couriers may not accept responsibility for age verification.

[Skwoddy]

Reasonable steps, ie, the current enter birthdate, tick boxes, are all thats required for online verification surely? and as snow says this is only for 'face to face' sales? They have merely added e-cigarettes to current legislation ahead of the TPD in April?

I'm probably wrong...

[cigeliquid]

Sept 19, 2015 13:07:06 GMT Skwoddy said:

Reasonable steps, ie, the current enter birthdate, tick boxes, are all thats required for online verification surely? and as snow says this is only for 'face to face' sales? They have merely added e-cigarettes to current legislation ahead of the TPD in April?

I'm probably wrong...

As of 1st October 2015 online sales by UK base vendors will require a lot more than just relying on the customers honesty in order to avoid a prosecution

if the underage customer makes a purchased on a web site with a debit card (given by some banks to children as young as 12 ) and then simply lied when they entered their age or ticked the over 18 box or again lied about their age in order to get a paypal account -- for some reason it is widely considered that Paypal age checks are not up to scratch -the customer is not breaking any UK laws. but the vendor is for not taking steps to prevent the sale to an under 18

On the other hand if a customer used false or doctored documents /copies of documents to prove their age is 18 + they are then breaking UK law and the vendor is covered.

credit cards are considered to be safe as they are only dished out to over 18s but if they are use though a Paypal account the vendor can't see if they used a credit card as payment so would need to verify age before completing the sale.

so what does this mean for an online vendor

Online Venders must now consider everyone is under the age of 18 and willing to lie in order to make a purchase
Trading standards can if they wish use under 18s to test websites with for example paypal or debit card purchases but will not be able to submit false documents if requested
vendors who use an age verification site would need to refuse a customers order if the verification site could not establish the customers age.

[Deleted]

oh right i would trust unsecure websites with my documents

[Deleted]

if this goes ahead i can see many scammer creating fake sites to steal documents from people

[flavourtank]

A under 18 wants to purchase x item and they require documents what's stopping that person getting hold of daddy's documents and scanning to computer, changing name and upload to said site requesting documents?

[Deleted]

Ah well off to China for more goodies.

[Skwoddy]

How long has this been known to vendors?, The original act was endorsed in March and you're the first ive seen reacting to this and with less than 2 weeks to go. I still suspect that is only for face to face sales, either direct to the minor or through a 'proxy' buying for a minor.

nowhere in the act (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/895/pdfs/uksi_20150895_en.pdf) or in the outline produced by Ash (http://ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_937.pdf)

or here (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/895/pdfs/uksiem_20150895_en.pdf) does it mention online sales?

How can you be held responsible for PayPals failings in the UK-Verified system that they adopt? you have taken all the steps necessary and it is impossible for you to police every online sale for possible underage customers?. They are trying to minimise the sales to minors and rightly so, I see no mention of a law that requires you to take scans or Personal information (outside an age check) from a customer in an online entity. You have already taken reasonable steps by allowing payment via credit card or by an verified system such as PayPal. If paypal decide it wont allow payments for ecigarette merchandise then you must adopt other measures.

Im not claiming to be right here, but its the way it reads to me?

Why has no other uk vendor mentioned this? or are we all in for a major surprise come october?

If Im wrong then its a complete pain in the arse if you ask me, i'll likely only provide info to online sales of nicotine but not every time I order something vape related, looks like china is getting the rest of my hard earned.

Kind of annoying that a potential murderer can walk into any shop and buy a set of steak knives unchallenged, but they expect everybody to jump through hoops to sell 10ml of eliquid online that has measures already put in place to protect underage sales.

[chykensa]

Good post Skwoddy, some excellent points here.
Either the online vendors have been caught with their pants down, or we are all in for a rude shock come Thursday week!

[Bobsbeer]

Clearly ticking a box to say I'm over 18 please let me in, is not a very good way to prevent under 18's getting in. Although it does put the onus on the individual to not lie. Face to face is fairly easy to police and manage. Shops selling tobacco have been doing it for years. No ID no sale if the shop thinks you are under 21. Online is slightly different, but I don't believe the government when enacting this legislation expected everyone to be sending sensitive documents out all over the place. To me that is just barmy. As a vendor I think you stand to lose a great deal of money as people click elsewhere. As a customer people will shop where they get the least hassle. That is not scanning and emailing personal documents to prove I'm over 18 just to purchase a few coils or a few mls of e liquid. My fingers are crossed for you. Interesting how none of the other vendors have weighed in on this. Perhaps you should ask what some of the others plan to do come 1 October?

Edit:  I'm not sure you would be fined £2500 on the first occasion.  Even shops only pay about £50 for under age sales with a fixed penalty notice.

[Deleted]

Sept 20, 2015 7:36:48 GMT Bobsbeer said:

Clearly ticking a box to say I'm over 18 please let me in, is not a very good way to prevent under 18's getting in. Although it does put the onus on the individual to not lie. Face to face is fairly easy to police and manage. Shops selling tobacco have been doing it for years. No ID no sale if the shop thinks you are under 21. Online is slightly different, but I don't believe the government when enacting this legislation expected everyone to be sending sensitive documents out all over the place. To me that is just barmy. As a vendor I think you stand to lose a great deal of money as people click elsewhere. As a customer people will shop where they get the least hassle. That is not scanning and emailing personal documents to prove I'm over 18 just to purchase a few coils or a few mls of e liquid. My fingers are crossed for you. Interesting how none of the other vendors have weighed in on this. Perhaps you should ask what some of the others plan to do come 1 October?

Nice one Bobsbeer, IMO you've summed it up perfectly. Finding it difficult  to understand why, at this late stage cigeliquid have been the only vendor to post here regarding this latest bout of stupidity. Being nearly 24 hours since the OP I would have thought this would have prompted some other prominent vendors to post their comments.

[Greg]

Sept 20, 2015 7:55:10 GMT striker42 said:

Sept 20, 2015 7:36:48 GMT Bobsbeer said:

Clearly ticking a box to say I'm over 18 please let me in, is not a very good way to prevent under 18's getting in. Although it does put the onus on the individual to not lie. Face to face is fairly easy to police and manage. Shops selling tobacco have been doing it for years. No ID no sale if the shop thinks you are under 21. Online is slightly different, but I don't believe the government when enacting this legislation expected everyone to be sending sensitive documents out all over the place. To me that is just barmy. As a vendor I think you stand to lose a great deal of money as people click elsewhere. As a customer people will shop where they get the least hassle. That is not scanning and emailing personal documents to prove I'm over 18 just to purchase a few coils or a few mls of e liquid. My fingers are crossed for you. Interesting how none of the other vendors have weighed in on this. Perhaps you should ask what some of the others plan to do come 1 October?

Nice one Bobsbeer, IMO you've summed it up perfectly. Finding it difficult  to understand why, at this late stage cigeliquid have been the only vendor to post here regarding this latest bout of stupidity. Being nearly 24 hours since the OP I would have thought this would have prompted some other prominent vendors to post their comments.

Give them a chance, they haven't stopped laughing yet 

[wil7985]

Was thinking same , seems strange that no other vendor's have chipped in here. You would have thought some would have mentioned this.