Vendors selling fake stuff

[robby]

Spot on smokingaces

[sydsut]

Oct 23, 2015 15:51:18 GMT Bobsbeer said:

I suppose you have to question the authenticity of any product sold by a company on the list. Like you say they may be getting their supply via a third party, but why do this, if they are legit distributors of real authentic products? They either fell off the back of a lorry heading out of a real products factory, or some other back handed deal has taken place to dump the product onto the market.

To me it's more important to get products like coils, batteries etc from reputable distributors rather than take a chance on cheap shit put out by some of the businesses on the list and touted as 'authentic'. Many of which we seem to promote widely on this forum. Clearly many of these are running fast and loose with distributor agreements. One company (not on the list) for instance won't ship ELeaf products to the UK. I did ask them about that, and it turns out that ELeaf will not allow it, as ELeaf have an agreement with another company to supply to the UK. Now I am beginning to understand. I am either getting fake/copy/clones/knock off's/fell off the lorry, from the likes of Gearbest/Fasttech/eFun etc, or they are playing rough shod over the rules.

As a recent thread has highlighted. If I was to buy a X item and ended up with Y I would not be too happy. By the same token, I purchased two identical ELeaf 40w TC mods, one from GearBest, one from Fasttech. One has a serial number on the top, laser etched. The other has the word ELeaf etched in the same place and no serial number. Both have ELeaf and iStick printed on the side, and both work fine. Now I wonder if one or both are real.

By allowing ourselves to be ruled by price, we have entered a strange twilight world. Is any of this shit real?

Does it really matter if they both work, give vaping pleasure and don't cost a bundle? Not to me it doesn't. I think your getting your keks in a kerfuffle over nothing.

And also distributor agreements are anti free trade and some may be illegal under EU rules. And no rules apply to China in any case. They do what they want, sign agreements with Western countries turn a blind eye and carry on as usual.

[Bobsbeer]

Oct 24, 2015 4:07:51 GMT sydsut said:

Does it really matter if they both work, give vaping pleasure and don't cost a bundle? Not to me it doesn't. I think your getting your keks in a kerfuffle over nothing.

And also distributor agreements are anti free trade and some may be illegal under EU rules. And no rules apply to China in any case. They do what they want, sign agreements with Western countries turn a blind eye and carry on as usual.

To some extent no, but it's more the principle of the situation.  If I order an ELeaf product, and it is described as an ELeaf product, I expect to get an ELeaf product.  If it says ELeaf styled then I expect to get a copy, and not an original product.  I think the agreements are anti consumer to a great extent, and a way of regulating the price, not for our benefit, but that of the manufacturers and distributors.  The important part for me is knowing what I am buying.  Is it real or not?

[smokingaces]

Just Aspire trying to price fix just like Joyetech and as some of the smaller companies' grow we will see the same from them, but for me love the big Chinese vendors they keep the price real for many of us who love the new shiny gadgets.
If i was paying the high price that some B&M charge in the Uk then i would only buy 1 mod and when that die's I would then replace,but having the option to buy at a cheaper price 1 i feel like I am getting a bargain 2 if the mods not that good I don't really get annoyed as its not cost the world 3 I get the good feel factor when I get tape mail.
I also stick to Gearbest fasttech Efun.top 3Fvape Focalecig and Cigabuy these vendors have always provide a good service, maybe a little slow on postage side but apart from that they are good reliable companies' and they do have there company reps on this forum who always help.

[Bobsbeer]

While it may be helpful to have a rep on the forum, that is no guarantee that what you are getting is what you think you are ordering. Some of the comments on here appear to show that us as a group of vapers lack any moral scruples when it comes to vaping equipment. We don't seem to care if what we are buying is a knock off or real as long as the price is cheap. Surely we have more moral fiber than that? I may want a Rolex watch, but can't afford an original. I could buy a fake Rolex, and strut around looking to all the world that I have loads of dosh because I can afford a Rolex. I would be as much of a fake as the watch on my wrist. Instead I have a £9 Accurist, a, because it tells the time and b, I can afford it.

The point is we all want decent stuff, at decent prices, but surely not at any cost. Some can afford top of the range, some can't, and many are in the middle. If we allow ourselves to be drawn into the world of fakes/copies/knockoffs, not caring because they are cheap, we will end up with fakes, and we then become the fake.

I'm all for natural competition on like for like products. The internet allows us to compare prices between literally hundreds of vendors in minutes, and choose the one we believe gives us the best value for money. But that comparison is skewed if we are comparing real with fake. Given that these products are sitting on racks thousands of miles away forces us to rely on the information on the website. If that information is untruthful or lacking, we can't make an informed decision. So trust becomes important. Our forum is littered with tales of woe by certain retailers, yet we flock to them like lemmings. Why?

[Perpetua]

Oct 24, 2015 10:55:21 GMT Bobsbeer said:

 Our forum is littered with tales of woe by certain retailers, yet we flock to them like lemmings. Why?

Because of this:

 

Oct 24, 2015 9:20:52 GMT smokingaces said:

Just Aspire trying to price fix just like Joyetech and as some of the smaller companies' grow we will see the same from them, but for me love the big Chinese vendors they keep the price real for many of us who love the new shiny gadgets.
If i was paying the high price that some B&M charge in the Uk then i would only buy 1 mod and when that die's I would then replace,but having the option to buy at a cheaper price 1 i feel like I am getting a bargain 2 if the mods not that good I don't really get annoyed as its not cost the world 3 I get the good feel factor when I get tape mail.
I also stick to Gearbest fasttech Efun.top 3Fvape Focalecig and Cigabuy these vendors have always provide a good service, maybe a little slow on postage side but apart from that they are good reliable companies' and they do have there company reps on this forum who always help.

The choice is ours to spend our money with whom and where we choose and if any Vendor overseas or UK based doesn't meet expectations, then don't buy from them.

It's quite simple in my head - we can't have it all ways, no matter how worthy the aspiration is.

[Greg]

I think as long as you get what you pay for then it's all good. If you are told an item is authentic and buy as such then you have the right to complain if it arrives as not as advertised. If you buy a clone and receive a clone it's all good too.

Let's not get into the moral fibre argument here, AAEC policy is clones can openly be bought, discussed and advertised. Morals of clones are, at least on our forum, upto the individual and others opinions are just as valid but best kept to themselves. Let's not start a clone war AGAIN.

The policy is clear and there are plenty of other forums than ban clones if it's too much for some to accept.

Live and let live I say

[robby]

We want to save money and we do save money, a lot of it. There are what I consider minor considerations and things that go along with saving money, long shipping times, the odd mistake etc. It`s China, that`s how China works. If you cant put up with those standards then dont use China, simples

In the meantime communicating well with the vendor when something happens (ie not being abusive or patronising them) does educate them in what we would like to see happen and slowly but surely things improve. The competition in China has a big influence as well these days, so much choice

[Deleted]

Also, remember, China doesn't give a toss about our TPD issues.

Where will you be buying your shinies from when that piece of legislative crap comes into full effect?

Think on.

[Bobsbeer]

I don't have a problem with clones, copies etc, as long as they are described as such. That is my point, which most seem to have missed.

Perpetua said: The choice is ours to spend our money with whom and where we choose and if any Vendor overseas or UK based doesn't meet expectations, then don't buy from them.

I totally agree with that. We do have the choice and we all exercise that choice every day.

Greg said: I think as long as you get what you pay for then it's all good. If you are told an item is authentic and buy as such then you have the right to complain if it arrives as not as advertised. If you buy a clone and receive a clone it's all good too.

Totally agree. The problem comes when the difference is not all that obvious. The outside may for all the world look original to the untrained eye. Take a pack of coils. They may look to all the world as though they are Kanger etc. Start to use them and the quality becomes apparent quite quickly. Yes I can complain to the vendor, but more than likely I will at first think, it's a dud, they are made in there thousands, I just lucked out. Then I try another and another. I paid a few quid, so in reality I just put it down to experience and move on. They may have been fakes, they may have been original, I don't know. Were I to purchase from a trusted vendor, and I see no reason why that can't be in China or the UK, I can feel assured that they were OEM coils, and they were a Friday afternoon special. If they were from a questionable vendor then they could be cheap shit made to look real, or OEM. There is doubt, and I am never going to know the truth. Are they made to the same specs as the OEM? Do they use the same materials? If I buy coils described as clones or 'style' then I knowingly take that risk. If I buy OEM and they are fake, I am being duped, and haven't got a clue what risk I'm taking. To me it's all about honesty and trust.

Oct 24, 2015 11:20:35 GMT robby said:

We want to save money and we do save money, a lot of it. There are what I consider minor considerations and things that go along with saving money, long shipping times, the odd mistake etc. It`s China, that`s how China works. If you cant put up with those standards then dont use China, simples

Yes we can, and do save money. I buy most of my vaping equipment from China, and other stuff too. However we make our choice of vendor based on the price quoted for a particular item assuming we are comparing like with like. Or at least I do. Maybe I have China wrong, and should not expect the items to be the same even if they are described the same? I don't care how a vendor gets their stock, as long as it is as described, and not a fake, unless sold as a fake. That is being dishonest, and the point I am trying to make. With some vendors on here I certainly question their honesty, and no longer buy from them.

[Deleted]

As is your right......and your choice

[robby]

White lies are part of China`s vaping language as is a lot of their internet commerce. Nothing contraversial there, it`s always been the case. We just have to pick our way through the smoke and mirrors and hope we make the right choice. It`s never going to change totally.

[Perpetua]

Oct 24, 2015 13:52:44 GMT robby said:

White lies are part of China`s vaping language as is a lot of their internet commerce. Nothing contraversial there, it`s always been the case. We just have to pick our way through the smoke and mirrors and hope we make the right choice. It`s never going to change totally.

No it isn't Robby . . . . life is about compromise and as long as the positive experiences outweigh the iffy, which I've to say have been precious few for me, then I'll continue to buy from China.


It's given me the opportunity to try so much in the way of our equipment which I couldn't have afforded/justified otherwise.


Maybe we should also remind ourselves that there are many, many consumers who are and have been totally happy with their China shopping experiences, just we don't hear quite so much about them.

[robby]

Absolutely, and taking all things into account I am more than happy with my experiences, and so much more fun than going to a B and M and paying twice the price. where`s the fun in that

[lisburnvapes]

Was the political sub forum closed down ? Lol
Lots of 'soap boxing' about the morals of purchasing clones ????

Think I'll