Please could you sort out my tank?

[chykensa]

OK, I'll put you out of suspenders, and yes a few of you have guessed correctly, it was Red Astaire. For future reference, it's the only juice she will vape - I have tried to tempt her with various other similar but different flavours, but she always comes back to good old RA!

[Ewol]

If they didn't use food coloring it wouldn't even be that bad. Pointless and stupid and has no benefit to the vaper.

[*-SARIN-*]

Dec 31, 2015 0:18:25 GMT Ewol said:

 Pointless and stupid and has no benefit to the vaper.

Rubbish!  The red stains that it causes on my jeans looks awesome

[Greg]

Dec 31, 2015 0:18:25 GMT Ewol said:

If they didn't use food coloring it wouldn't even be that bad. Pointless and stupid and has no benefit to the vaper.

You are inferring the colouring is bad, can you explain why ? Is it detrimental in some way or are you just saying it's pointless in your opinion ?

[*-SARIN-*]

Dec 31, 2015 1:01:10 GMT Greg said:

Dec 31, 2015 0:18:25 GMT Ewol said:

If they didn't use food coloring it wouldn't even be that bad. Pointless and stupid and has no benefit to the vaper.

You are inferring the colouring is bad, can you explain why ? Is it detrimental in some way or are you just saying it's pointless in your opinion ?

I suppose that it is an un-needed addition to the juice but it's a major part of the RA branding, lots of people recognise it.  I know that some vendors are removing colouring from their juices but i personally don't stress about it.  Colouring won't gunk up the coil any quicker than un-coloured RA and although i can't answer for them, i suspect that Ewol won't be able to produce any evidence that the colouring is detrimental to health - YET!

[Ewol]

No, it IS detrimental. It gunks up coils and can negatively effect the flavor.

Also, I'm not paranoid. I don't care about diketones and the like, but I really wouldn't want to inhale titanium dioxide which is in most food coloring.

The only reason they're adding it is because it 'looks cool'. It's pointless. Why add ingredients that are not needed? I mean at least diketones are delicious.

There was a big kick up about this a year ago in America. https://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/1ycqky/unicorn_milk_by_cuttwood_contains_titanium_dioxide

That particular eliquid no longer uses food coloring and in my opinion no respectable vendor should.

Of course, I won't tell people what to vape and what not to vape. You guys can make up your own minds.

[*-SARIN-*]

Dec 31, 2015 1:32:46 GMT Ewol said:

No, it IS detrimental. It gunks up coils and can negatively effect the flavor.

Also, I'm not paranoid. I don't care about diketones and the like, but I really wouldn't want to inhale titanium dioxide which is in most food coloring.

The only reason they're adding it is because it 'looks cool'. It's pointless. Why add ingredients that are not needed? I mean at least diketones are delicious.

There was a big kick up about this a year ago in America. https://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/1ycqky/unicorn_milk_by_cuttwood_contains_titanium_dioxide

That particular eliquid no longer uses food coloring and in my opinion no respectable vendor should.

Of course, I won't tell people what to vape and what not to vape. You guys can make up your own minds.

No, it IS detrimental. It gunks up coils and can negatively effect the flavor.


There is no evidence of it being detrimental to health as yet, please feel free to link some validated scientific research.  Considering that colourings don't contain any sugars i'm at a loss as to why it would gunk up coils more than un-coloured liquid?  IMO sweeter liquids kill coils not those with colouring.  Colourings are flavourless and won't affect the flavour (this is how they are designed), if they affected the flavour they would be called flavourings.


Also, I'm not paranoid. I don't care about diketones and the like, but I really wouldn't want to inhale titanium dioxide which is in most food coloring.


Not true, titanium dioxide is used as a WHITE food colouring, there is no titanium dioxide in RA.  Unicorn milk that is referred to in the Reddit article used to be - white!  With regards to inhalation i agree that it might not be the best but it's at it's most dangerous as a dust rather than in suspension.  You SHOULD be worried about diketones, there IS scientific evidence that they are harmful to health


The only reason they're adding it is because it 'looks cool'. It's pointless. Why add ingredients that are not needed? I mean at least diketones are delicious.


The reason that they are adding the colouring is for branding, i agree that it might be a bit pointless but it does have people recognising it, which is the whole idea.


There was a big kick up about this a year ago in America. https://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/1ycqky/unicorn_milk_by_cuttwood_contains_titanium_dioxide


To be fair they removed it to reduce damage to the brand rather than because it was found to be harmful. 

That particular eliquid no longer uses food coloring and in my opinion no respectable vendor should.


See above about branding damage.


Of course, I won't tell people what to vape and what not to vape. You guys can make up your own minds.

I totally agree

[Ewol]

There is evidence out there that coloring gunks up coils. You can research yourself or not. I don't really care either way.

Titanium dioxide is used in more than just white food coloring as well.

[*-SARIN-*]

Dec 31, 2015 2:10:34 GMT Ewol said:

There is evidence out there that coloring gunks up coils. You can research yourself or not. I don't really care either way.

Titanium dioxide is used in more than just white food coloring as well.

I'm used to researching information and i can't find any scientific evidence stating that it gunks up coils.  How can you be sure that it's not other compounds in the liquid rather than the colouring?  Natural and synthetic sweeteners are more likely to gunk coils due to their big molecular structures and their greater density causing an increase in heat.

It's true that TiO2 is used in other colourings other than white but on addition it makes clear liquids opaque.

But generally i agree that it's probably not needed.  I take it or leave it to be fair, i don't search out coloured liquids and i think in the future they will disappear.  T-Juice already make Clara-T, the same RA flavour without the colouring.

[VapingBad]

BTW *-SARIN-* is a Chemist (not a Pharmacist) so I would expect him to understand these issues far better than I or the average vapour.

[Ewol]

Alright, I'll admit there isn't enough evidence out there, but search for food coloring and coil gunking on google, if it's some weird coincidence that eliquid with food coloring is gunking goils then fine, but there is a lot of cases to be a coincidence. For example VV heisenberg is really bad at gunking coils yet none of the ingredients are particularly knowing for coil gunking.

I also disagree with you on diketones. The amount inhaled is tiny in comparison to cigarettes and yet do you know of any cases of popcorn lung in smokers? Either way most vendors are changing their recipes or removing eliquid with them anyway.

[Ewol]

Dec 31, 2015 2:31:35 GMT VapingBad said:

BTW *-SARIN-* is a Chemist (not a Pharmacist) so I would expect him to understand these issues far better than I or the average vapour.

Why? Not even the 'experts' really know the effects yet. He/she obviously will know way more about chemicals than me, yes, but not on the effects of inhalation because nobody really knows yet.

[VapingBad]

Dec 31, 2015 3:50:18 GMT Ewol said:

Dec 31, 2015 2:31:35 GMT VapingBad said:

BTW *-SARIN-* is a Chemist (not a Pharmacist) so I would expect him to understand these issues far better than I or the average vapour.

Why? Not even the 'experts' really know the effects yet. He/she obviously will know way more about chemicals than me, yes, but not on the effects of inhalation because nobody really knows yet.

He would have had to do loads of analysing lab results, other parties research, finding previous research etc to get his degree and post grad qualifications and if he says he looked and found nothing I doubt it is in the public domain if it exists at all.  A layperson can know more about a specific area and prove the experts wrong if they put in the effort, but he did ask you to quote/link to proof and you have not given any. 

Sure absence of proof of danger is not the same as safe, but then we use the best knowledge we have to create a hypothesis to prove a point and then test it.  And you are correct no one is testing the long term effects of inhaling the colouring in RA, but these sort of things are where chemists and other scientists can rule out loads of stuff that just wouldn't happen right off the bat as well as predicting what is likely to happen, in this case the compounds formed and are any an inhalation or ingestion hazard as he in not a medic or biologist....   Not perfect maybe, but the best way we have to assess the risk.

I have no dog in this fight, I don't even like RA.

[chykensa]

Is it my chemical ignorance, or is it actually Diacetyl which is linked to Popcorn Lung, and not Diketones? I stand to be educated here, my chemical knowledge is limited to knowing that bleach and nicotine base both need to be rinsed off my fingers immediately if I spill them!! *-SARIN-*, can you give us some of your finely honed knowledge here please?

[Greg]

Thanks *-SARIN-* for the clarity, no pun intended. As I thought an Internet "fact" cherry picker

Incidentally Clara T tastes totally different to RA.