Nicotine post TPD

[charliehorse]

Apr 18, 2016 13:13:02 GMT Bobsbeer said:

Placed on the market is just that. It means for sale, so will apply to anyone selling it. Manufacturer through to final retailer. However you are reading the TPD version rather than the UK version which is what we will have to follow. The wording is subtly different, which is what I was pointing out in the first post.

I do follow your point Bobsbeer but the only UK version I can find online is marked as "Consultation Draft" which to me isn't necessarily the finished article.

Again, I hope you end up being right on this one

[Bobsbeer]

Apr 18, 2016 16:31:42 GMT cigeliquid said:

Apr 18, 2016 13:13:02 GMT Bobsbeer said:

Placed on the market is just that. It means for sale, so will apply to anyone selling it. Manufacturer through to final retailer. However you are reading the TPD version rather than the UK version which is what we will have to follow. The wording is subtly different, which is what I was pointing out in the first post.

The full details of " placed on the market" can be found if you search google for ---- The 'Blue Guide' on the implementation of EU product rules 2016---
Section 2.3 page 19

Not far off what I said, albeit in more fancy wording, but I hadn't seen the Blue Guide, so thanks for that.  

• A product is made available on the market when supplied for distribution, consumption or use on the Union

market in the course of a commercial activity, whether in return for payment or free of charge.

• The concept of making available refers to each individual product

I agree charliehorse.  I'm quoting the draft Statutory Instrument version, as the final one has yet to be published, but hopefully will be the same or better from our point of view.

[anon4]

I reckon wholesale will be allowed for manufacturers, it should be anyways, how can they waffle on about economy and job shortages if they are not going to give people in the vaping business a fighting chance? Wholesale is easy to obtain for non businessmen these days so I don't see it being too much of an issue for personal mixers. If they do decide that ALL containers for whatever use will have to comply to this idiotic rule it will be a big shame. By that logic we should only sell fags in packs of 10, if smokers can buy a 200 carton we should be able to buy what the hell we want to as well, tax it if you want I don't care just let me choose how much I want to buy. Diy will still be doable for the low mg crowd but not nearly cheap as it is now as 20mg base is just over a quarter of 72mg base nic per volume then the addition packaging because of 10ml bottles. Please don't let that be the way. What I would like to know is import/export laws regarding this as that could be a way around for both producer and consumer. Do I want to vape dodgy Chinese concentrates and nic base? No. But I'll take it over the tpd, if it's allowed under the very same

[Deleted]

I'll vape no flavour even if it means I keep my mega low dose (Drop) of nicotine in my mix and my vapes

Right now I just picked up a bad bottle of flavour so after playing for an hour with tank I order more food flavourings for my coffee

[Bobsbeer]

Apr 19, 2016 3:04:22 GMT anon4 said:

I reckon wholesale will be allowed for manufacturers, it should be anyways, how can they waffle on about economy and job shortages if they are not going to give people in the vaping business a fighting chance? Wholesale is easy to obtain for non businessmen these days so I don't see it being too much of an issue for personal mixers. If they do decide that ALL containers for whatever use will have to comply to this idiotic rule it will be a big shame. By that logic we should only sell fags in packs of 10, if smokers can buy a 200 carton we should be able to buy what the hell we want to as well, tax it if you want I don't care just let me choose how much I want to buy. Diy will still be doable for the low mg crowd but not nearly cheap as it is now as 20mg base is just over a quarter of 72mg base nic per volume then the addition packaging because of 10ml bottles. Please don't let that be the way. What I would like to know is import/export laws regarding this as that could be a way around for both producer and consumer. Do I want to vape dodgy Chinese concentrates and nic base? No. But I'll take it over the tpd, if it's allowed under the very same

I think you are right anon4.  That's what the legislators have done by subtly changing the order of the words.  The EU wording would outlaw bulk nic liquid, whereas in the UK wording it is only the last step that is restricted, which if you are going to restrict something, that is the place to do it, as it passes to the consumer.  Without that change it makes it a right royal mess for manufacturers, which even the EU legislators would probably agree was wrong, so I would not expect any backlash from the EU about our version of TPD legislation.  However, maybe that was their intention?  It would have the effect of killing most of the juice industry, or make the final product ridiculously expensive.  Good plan if you are anti vaping.

[erik514]

The U.K. Government have already stated they plan on treating the TPD as lightly as they can and will not ban people from importing products from countries not covered by EU law so the only difference as I understand it will be where we buy from, not what we buy.

[GunJack]

Apr 19, 2016 7:32:12 GMT erik514 said:

The U.K. Government have already stated they plan on treating the TPD as lightly as they can and will not ban people from importing products from countries not covered by EU law so the only difference as I understand it will be where we buy from, not what we buy.

...and this shouldn't stop buying from China

p.s. the TPD will STOP fags being sold in 10s to discourage the chiiiildren.....

[erik514]

Yep that it will and that's about the only good to come from it

[cigeliquid]

Apr 19, 2016 8:45:08 GMT GunJack said:

Apr 19, 2016 7:32:12 GMT erik514 said:

The U.K. Government have already stated they plan on treating the TPD as lightly as they can and will not ban people from importing products from countries not covered by EU law so the only difference as I understand it will be where we buy from, not what we buy.

...and this shouldn't stop buying from China

p.s. the TPD will STOP fags being sold in 10s to discourage the chiiiildren.....

Every government in the EU including the UK is looking at Taxing " nicotine containing liquids-"
The TPD has never been about your safety - it has always been about a uniform and workable system of Taxation across the EU
When a Tax is placed on nicotine containing e-liquids the talk on the forums will be about devices that use almost no e-liquid.

Any risk of people avoiding Tax by importing nicotine from outside the EU will be avoided by introducing new laws and fines.

[GunJack]

Apr 19, 2016 12:35:44 GMT cigeliquid said:

Every government in the EU including the UK is looking at Taxing " nicotine containing liquids-"
agreed

The TPD has never been about your safety - it has always been about a uniform and workable system of Taxation across the EU
agreed

When a Tax is placed on nicotine containing e-liquids the talk on the forums will be about devices that use almost no e-liquid.
no, don't see how you arrive at this conclusion... generally less liquid consumption would require higher strengths for most people (up to the new permitted max of 20mg) so will be limited from that perspective anyway

Any risk of people avoiding Tax by importing nicotine from outside the EU will be avoided by introducing new laws and fines.
that I can believe

Buying larger-capacity tanks from china by an individual I don't think will be affected. What/how do you propose for "devices that use almost no e-liquid" ?

[anon4]

Apr 19, 2016 13:03:04 GMT GunJack said:

Apr 19, 2016 12:35:44 GMT cigeliquid said:

Every government in the EU including the UK is looking at Taxing " nicotine containing liquids-"
agreed

The TPD has never been about your safety - it has always been about a uniform and workable system of Taxation across the EU
agreed

When a Tax is placed on nicotine containing e-liquids the talk on the forums will be about devices that use almost no e-liquid.
no, don't see how you arrive at this conclusion... generally less liquid consumption would require higher strengths for most people (up to the new permitted max of 20mg) so will be limited from that perspective anyway

Any risk of people avoiding Tax by importing nicotine from outside the EU will be avoided by introducing new laws and fines.
that I can believe

Buying larger-capacity tanks from china by an individual I don't think will be affected. What/how do you propose for "devices that use almost no e-liquid" ?

In other words lower power, mouth to lung tanks. More efficent vape and less waste in clouds. If liquid becomes expensive higher strength used in smaller quantities will probably become favorable to cloud chasing. Die hard chasers will probably make their own if the law still allows. My plan is the latter

[cigeliquid]

[/quote]Buying larger-capacity tanks from china by an individual I don't think will be affected. What/how do you propose for "devices that use almost no e-liquid" ?[/quote]


I recall reading some interesting e-liquid patents made in around 2013 involving nicotine oxides that give a far better /faster mg for mg hit than nicotine free base.

[GunJack]

Apr 19, 2016 13:37:17 GMT anon4 said:

In other words lower power, mouth to lung tanks. More efficent vape and less waste in clouds. If liquid becomes expensive higher strength used in smaller quantities will probably become favorable to cloud chasing. Die hard chasers will probably make their own if the law still allows. My plan is the latter

I only mtl now and still go through 4-5ml a day

..and that's in 2.5 or 3.8ml tanks, so not tpd compliant.....

[ceedee]

The government have published (the final version of) the Tobacco and Related Products Regs 2016 (direct link to pdf) today.

The first thing that's been noticed is that the potential loophole regarding the sale of nicotine solutions to consumers in bottles other than refill containers seems to have been closed:

[Bobsbeer]

Bugger they must have read my thread. No doubt others had seen the likely outcome of the original wording.