How much will DIY Mixing cost post TPD?

[DiscoDes]

This is a discussion!

I have made some assumptions with my costs (but based on what I previousy paid), and they are MY costs, feel free to add you own calculations.

I will also assume that you are buying supplies post TPD and not raiding you apocalypse stash.

So lets quantify it: at the moment for me typically:

Nicotine currently paying 5p per ml = £50 per litre delivered

PG 0.5p (half a penny) per ml = £5 per litre

VG 0.4p per ml = £4 per litre

One shot flavour - (I use Red Astaire) my last order was £28 for 90ml delivered so £0.31p/ml

So last night I made up 100ml @20% flavouring and 3mg nic 70VG 30PG

Nic Base (72mg) 4.17ml = 21p

Red Astaire 20ml = £6.20

VG 66ml = 26p

PG 10ml = 5p

Therefore that 100ml cost ME £6.72

Bottle - no cost, I recycled a VG bottle

I did do a BIT of rounding up just to make it easy to calculate/compare.

POST TPD

So you should be able to get flavours around the same cost as now as the TPD will not effect them.

VG & PG the same, no or little effect by the TPD

Nic Base - will only be available in 10ml bottles to a maximum strength of 18mg retail (I know its 20mg max but you will find that 18ml will be sold so they don't go over)

How much will 10ml be?

The vendors will have to go through the TPD process, testing & registration etc so I reckon on about £5 per 10ml or 50p/ml

Now my cost to to make 100ml POST TPD

Nic Base (18mg) 16.67ml = £8.33

Red Astaire 20ml = £6.20

VG 66ml = 26p

PG 10ml = 5p

Therefore that POST TPD that 100ml could cost ME £14.85 so over DOUBLE the cost

I know RA concentrate is not cheap and by using flavours frm other suppliers your cost may well be significantly cheaper, BUT they will also NOT be affected by the TPD.

I just though i'd do this as an excercise, it may well be WRONG! I am really bad at maths so may have to revise the above, but hopefully you can see what I'm trying to get over.

I was just trying to work out what the cost difference would be.

What's your thoughts?

[Postmodern Smoking]

You still have listed "Nic Base (72mg) 4.17ml" POST TPD.... don't you mean 18mg/ml and a lot more than 4.17ml?



[Edited to Add] - ( Now corrected in the original post )

[DiscoDes]

May 6, 2016 13:12:18 GMT Postmodern Smoking said:

You still have listed "Nic Base (72mg) 4.17ml" POST TPD.... don't you mean 18mg/ml and a lot more than 4.17ml?

Ha Ha! I knew i'd make a mistake - DOH!

Now corrected!

[Deleted]

Red Astaire is off the menu no food colourings i,m afraid.

[DiscoDes]

May 6, 2016 13:29:16 GMT @tmfkatubthumper said:

Red Astaire is off the menu no food colourings i,m afraid.

No food colouring in e-juice NOT flavourings

But I reckon T-juice will remove the colouring - they have done already, isn't Clara T Red Astaire without the colouring?

[Bobsbeer]

When they decide to add tax in a year or so down the line that will be when we see the price rocket. With the nic base I have stashed I still have enough for over 6 years of vaping at 3mg, so I doubt I'll ever need to buy nic base again. Sorry George, no tax from me.

[nanotm]

are the flavourings not covered buy the tpd ?

I ask because I saw a photo on a link to face book showing inerwa flavourings in the new tpd compliant packaging complete with leaflet for sale in vape shops, it was linked to in one of the many news pages via nothing without us thread in the last couple of day (too lazy to look back through them and find it again)

if as was depicted there it effects all liquids sold for vaping (or is that just a country by country restriction ?) then its likely to increase diy costs by a factor of 10, and that's ignoring the german health authroities attempts to have pg reclassified as a toxic substance to make its sale become restricted quite heavily making it become almost impossible to obtain for the home brew maker

[Bobsbeer]

Inerwa are a Polish company so they are maybe preparing for their own TPD regulations. I very much doubt Germany will succeed in getting PG classified as toxic. It has too many uses away from vaping.

[cigeliquid]

To be economic for most shops/web shops 1x 10ml bottle of unflavoured 20mg(18mg to be on the safe side) will need to be around £1.00-1.25 each if sold separately.
However they will likely be offered in multi packs this might bring the price down to around 80p each providing you buy 40 at a time
40x £0.80 = £32.00 ( most of the extra costs are due to 39 extra bottles,39 extra labels,time and packing +ongoing TPD reporting and paperwork)

Maths
The Nicotine content in the 40 x 10ml bottles of 18mg works out to be the same as the nicotine content of 1x 100ml of 72mg
or put it another way 400 x 10ml bottles of 18ml (equivalent to 1lt of 72mg) is likely cost £320.

But this is likely to be far more in a few years time due to taxation

Reasoning
if a TAX is put on nicotine containing e-liquids it is most unlikely it will be a flat TAX per bottle- as many would rightly call for lower strength e-liquids to have lower TAXs
if not a large number would move up to stronger mg e-liquids in order to save money ( stronger the e-liquid the less you tend to use)

if for example a very low TAX of 0.01p per mg was ever placed on nicotine containing liquids in the UK then a 10ml bottle of 4mg would have £0.40 of tax
However the same size bottle of 18mg would have £1.80 TAX
Once you start adding possible future Taxation into the mix then the costs soon start to stack up even at 1p per mg
40x10ml 18mg would cost around £104.00
and 400x 10ml 18mg ( equivalent nicotine content of 1x 1lt 72mg) would work out around £1040

Disclaimer
These figures are base on pure guesswork and as such i might be talking total bolloks
These figures are based on the UK TAXing e-liquids at a far lower rate than cigarettes or any other EU member state
if we in the UK are required to fall in line with other EU member states the the costs will shoot up far more.

[Perpetua]

May 6, 2016 13:31:14 GMT DiscoDes said:

May 6, 2016 13:29:16 GMT @tmfkatubthumper said:

Red Astaire is off the menu no food colourings i,m afraid.

No food colouring in e-juice NOT flavourings

But I reckon T-juice will remove the colouring - they have done already, isn't Clara T Red Astaire without the colouring?

Not quite . . . . it isn't as ' full on ' as RA is in flavour Des - similar but different.

[DiscoDes]

May 6, 2016 19:21:25 GMT cigeliquid said:

To be economic for most shops/web shops 1x 10ml bottle of unflavoured 20mg(18mg to be on the safe side) will need to be around £1.00-1.25 each if sold separately.
However they will likely be offered in multi packs this might bring the price down to around 80p each providing you buy 40 at a time
40x £0.80 = £32.00 ( most of the extra costs are due to 39 extra bottles,39 extra labels,time and packing +ongoing TPD reporting and paperwork)

Maths
The Nicotine content in the 40 x 10ml bottles of 18mg works out to be the same as the nicotine content of 1x 100ml of 72mg
or put it another way 400 x 10ml bottles of 18ml (equivalent to 1lt of 72mg) is likely cost £320.

But this is likely to be far more in a few years time due to taxation

Reasoning
if a TAX is put on nicotine containing e-liquids it is most unlikely it will be a flat TAX per bottle- as many would rightly call for lower strength e-liquids to have lower TAXs
if not a large number would move up to stronger mg e-liquids in order to save money ( stronger the e-liquid the less you tend to use)

if for example a very low TAX of 0.01p per mg was ever placed on nicotine containing liquids in the UK then a 10ml bottle of 4mg would have £0.40 of tax
However the same size bottle of 18mg would have £1.80 TAX
Once you start adding possible future Taxation into the mix then the costs soon start to stack up even at 1p per mg
40x10ml 18mg would cost around £104.00
and 400x 10ml 18mg ( equivalent nicotine content of 1x 1lt 72mg) would work out around £1040

Disclaimer
These figures are base on pure guesswork and as such i might be talking total bolloks
These figures are based on the UK TAXing e-liquids at a far lower rate than cigarettes or any other EU member state
if we in the UK are required to fall in line with other EU member states the the costs will shoot up far more.

This is great to have a Vendors view on where the Nic Base prices are likey to be.

Thank you cigeliquid

[lobeydosser]

Fortunately non of this would concern me as 18mg is a ridiculous amount to expect me to consume.
Anything less than 24mg and I would be back smoking in no time.

As I suspect most of my fellow local vapers will be.

[charliehorse]

May 6, 2016 13:03:54 GMT DiscoDes said:

................
POST TPD

So you should be able to get flavours around the same cost as now as the TPD will not effect them.

VG & PG the same, no or little effect by the TPD

Nic Base - will only be available in 10ml bottles to a maximum strength of 18mg retail (I know its 20mg max but you will find that 18ml will be sold so they don't go over)

How much will 10ml be?

Just done a quick check on the mix calculator and if you are mixing at 6mg and make 30ml of juice with 15% flavouring (a pretty standard mix for myself) then you are going to use that 10ml bottle of nic base (18mg) in one go. 

How much will 10ml be, seems like a very good question.

[arron]

But nicotine has many uses other than for eliquid, maybe they will just tax all nicotine to cover all uses to ensure that vaping does get taxed??

For all current diyers it will be easy enough to stock enough nic to last 5-10 years. Even then we have China!

The biggest loses post TPD will be the people yet to find vaping or those that are not mixing their own liquid.

I would have much more respect for governing bodies if they just admitted that they want the revenue from vaping rather than claim they are "protecting people"

I don't get involved with politics in any form because the very thought of how much we constantly get screwed over from every angle is enough to drive a man to the edge!

[charliehorse]

May 7, 2016 17:37:54 GMT arron said:

But nicotine has many uses other than for eliquid, maybe they will just tax all nicotine to cover all uses to ensure that vaping does get taxed??

For all current diyers it will be easy enough to stock enough nic to last 5-10 years. Even then we have China!

The biggest loses post TPD will be the people yet to find vaping or those that are not mixing their own liquid.

I would have much more respect for governing bodies if they just admitted that they want the revenue from vaping rather than claim they are "protecting people"

I don't get involved with politics in any form because the very thought of how much we constantly get screwed over from every angle is enough to drive a man to the edge!

True - but as soon as it's mixed with PG or VG to be sold as nic base I would assume from what is being said that it will fall under the (hideous) regulations.