Just seen on the BBC Website

[Takshaka]

Jul 5, 2012 20:01:14 GMT jiggsbro said:

Stealth vaping is a result of the war on terror?

It is the loss of a sense of personal freedom to do something which is perfectly legal in case it is percieved as being outside of the increasingly narrow definition of what is 'normal' combined with a decrease in peoples willingness to stand up for their rights

[domesticextremist]

Jul 5, 2012 20:09:57 GMT jiggsbro said:

Jul 5, 2012 18:34:34 GMT domesticextremist said:

Ah, I see. I guess I was wrong and no one ever thought it worthwhile to blow up a bus.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-18363922
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17673759
www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2012/jun/09/syrian-army-bus-bomb-damascus-video
www.bbc.co.uk/news/10372563
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-18482892
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13218870
etc.

I'm not denying it happens, I'm saying it is a different proposition to rigging
bridges along the M4 with explosives.

The point of the clip is (whether you believe it to be conspiracy
theory or fantastic coincidence) despite having the emergency and
security services in exactly the right places at exactly the right time on
exactly the right day, the attacks were still successful.

Ergo turning ourselves into a police state won't keep us safe.
If it has got to the point where the bomb is on the bus then the
security services have already failed IMO.

[rosylea]

Can just hear them all now,bloody dirty smokers again,they should be banned from travelling!

[Takshaka]

Jul 5, 2012 20:46:29 GMT kirsty0108 said:

I am also starting to be a little of the opinion that vaping on public transport could be a little of a no-no, your opinion of a nicely flavoured/ smelling choice, could be very different to the person sitting next to you . I wouldn't be happy if the person I was started burning joss sticks or constantly spraying deodorant for example........

I am all for being considerate to others however if you follow that argument to it's logical conclusion there is no end to the number of things that shouldn't be done/allowed on public transport in case someone is offended or mildly inconvenienced.

1. Women wearing too much perfume.
2. Any form of body odour.
3. Eating strong smelling food.
4. Talking loudly on a mobile phone.
5. Annoying ringtones (every ringtone is potentially annoying to someone, therefore ban all ringtones)
6. Crying children.

Feel free to add to the list... not saying any of these are things that annoy me, just making a point.

[vereybowring]

I can see the point of view from the police, it all comes down to how it was reported to them. After the London bombing, witnesses on the bus that was blown up reported seeing a bag with smoke coming out of it.
Still a bit overdone though, surely a quick thorough search would have found no bomb, there was no need to keep the passengers on as long as they did to set up all the equipment they did before they even searched anything.

I find this extremely funny since this week I tried stealthing on the train as an experiment. On Monday I spent 3 hours on the train stealthing and didn't even get a second look. Today while this story was unfolding I was again on a train for 3 hours and even someone sitting opposite me didn't even seem to notice I was doing anything different.
I have to say I was people watching everyone I could to look for reactions and did not see a single one on either trip. I was vaping on a very small VV at 4.2V, 2.5 Ohm atty and was using my standard 50/50 RY mix. On both trips I got through 1.5 ml on the journey so its not as if I was holding back "apart from holding in vapour". I even let some vapour escape to see if anybody noticed, only a bit, but still enough so it was visible.

[kirsty0108]

Jul 5, 2012 21:15:21 GMT Takshaka said:

Jul 5, 2012 20:46:29 GMT kirsty0108 said:

I am also starting to be a little of the opinion that vaping on public transport could be a little of a no-no, your opinion of a nicely flavoured/ smelling choice, could be very different to the person sitting next to you . I wouldn't be happy if the person I was started burning joss sticks or constantly spraying deodorant for example........

I am all for being considerate to others however if you follow that argument to it's logical conclusion there is no end to the number of things that shouldn't be done/allowed on public transport in case someone is offended or mildly inconvenienced.

1. Women wearing too much perfume.
2. Any form of body odour.
3. Eating strong smelling food.
4. Talking loudly on a mobile phone.
5. Annoying ringtones (every ringtone is potentially annoying to someone, therefore ban all ringtones)
6. Crying children.

Feel free to add to the list... not saying any of these are things that annoy me, just making a point.

Why would you seek to do any of these things on public transport ? It is common courtesy to avoid it at all costs. I am not saying that it doesn't happen I am just saying that a reasonable person would try and avoid inconveniencing others particularly in an enclosed environment. The only one on your list that is completely unavoidable is the crying of children, they do have the habit of kicking off at the most inopportune moments.

[stanton]

oh, comon, kirsty. that was the only one on the list that really annoys me. i say it stays on the list.

[joan]

so come on, which one of you was it
you know you want to own up

what some people will do to advertise e-cigs

did chrissie put you up to it

[leftfield]

First thing I thought was, I wonder if that was anyone on here

I'm going all the way to Edinburgh on Monday so if there's a terror alert because of an e-cig user in 'burgh, it might be me #icon_rofl#

[Karma]

Unfortunately I don't think this has done anything to positively endorse e-cigs

I really think that if we are in a non smoking environment we should be up front and ask if it's ok to vape.

I do think there has been an over reaction here. I heard about it on the radio with my 17yr old DS in the car. He was laughing his head of saying ' that'l be you mum, geting arrested as a terrorist'!

[kurotoshiro]

I'm not sure about these two things:

Jul 5, 2012 21:04:13 GMT Takshaka said:

(1) the loss of a sense of personal freedom to do something which is perfectly legal in case it is percieved as being outside of the increasingly narrow definition of what is 'normal'

(2) a decrease in peoples willingness to stand up for their rights

I think it's important to bear in mind that even in the heyday of smoking, back when it was not considered harmful, and smokers had much more actual day-to-day freedom to smoke, I don't think they necessarily felt a "sense of personal freedom" to smoke regardless of context. In circumstances where it was not already clear that smoking was acceptable or anticipated (the private home or office of a non-smoker, for example), it was always polite to ask "May I smoke?" or "Do you mind if I smoke?". Even if you knew full-well that the answer would be "Please do, here's an ashtray", it was still polite to ask. (In fact, it was often polite to ask precisely because you knew that they would no doubt be driven by politeness to grant the permission.)

Here's the thing: my feelings about vaping are somewhat similar. If it seems polite to ask, I'll ask. And if I'm told "no", I'll respect that. The question is: What happens if circumstances make it difficult to fully explain what I want to do and ascertain whether everyone present is OK with it (let's say: trying to ask permission to vape on a crowded train carriage)? It's not like going into a pub or restaurant many years ago, where a social expectation had already been set up - the provision of ashtrays, the sale of matches, the presence of other customers already engaged in the act of smoking. In most contemporary public settings, vaping is neither expected, anticipated, provided for, or actually occurring. And as today's news shows, it may not even be comprehended, and may be dangerously misunderstood and misidentified. In these situations, I feel inclined to err on the side of politeness / precaution and refrain from vaping.

The other thing is: I don't like the idea that someone might regard the attitude expressed above as me being "unwilling to stand up for my rights". It's not clear to me what rights I can justifiably claim to have in that kind of situation. What I'm more concerned about is my own duty to not disregard the rights that other people might possibly have (which, because of the situation, I have no practical way to determine or address) just because I feel like I have a right to do something.

And yes, of course, even though it's only vaping, not smoking, and we all know how reasonable it is to think that vaping is substantially safer (possibly even 100% safe, who knows) it's still a vapour containing nicotine that I'm considering breathing out into the local atmosphere, and I don't think it's going too far to assume that some people may have concerns about someone doing that without at least trying to ask or explain.

[kurotoshiro]

Apologies for double posting, but as for this list:

Jul 5, 2012 21:15:21 GMT Takshaka said:

1. Women wearing too much perfume.
2. Any form of body odour.
3. Eating strong smelling food.
4. Talking loudly on a mobile phone.
5. Annoying ringtones (every ringtone is potentially annoying to someone, therefore ban all ringtones)
6. Crying children.

This is another area where I'm inclined to think in terms of duties rather then rights. It should be everyone's duty to attempt to refrain from inflicting the items on this list on other people (unless some prior understanding, explicit or tacit, exists). It's also everyone's duty to make reasonable allowances for the items on the list where this seems appropriate (eg, there's a world of difference between noisy kids caused by lack of control from bad parents and kids being noisy despite obvious efforts of parents trying their best under difficult circumstances).

[Anne (fuzzy)]

Terrorist alert. Ridiculous.

[Gordy]

wouldnt it be funny if the person on the bus was a member of the forum... who do we know who lives near Birmingham ...off to check the AAE-C map LOL

on another note at least the person in question wasn't using a cig-e-like
...we know this as vapour was clearly visible

[Gordy]

wonder if they were vaping this?
Jay you have a lot to answer for