EU Tobacco directive.

[lobeydosser]

We cannot be wholly surprised that non smoking bureaucrats are ill informed about both smoking and e-cigs when even us vapers are, for the most part, confused about some aspects of our pursuit.
What we need is an all encompassing fact sheet that we can access to obtain facts and figures that we can then use when we write to our MPs and MEPs.

I have already sent the basic letter to all apropriate MPs and out of 5 sent, had one reply. That was from my MSP.
I am now composing a second, more personal letter, but getting UK and European facts and figures is taking a lot of time searching for it.

In the meantime, while we do get favourable replies from time to time, I fear that the majority of the feedback we are getting is not looking good.

[Karma]

Lobey, as you're in Scotland I expect you to get the same as Verey and I from Glenis and David!

[lobeydosser]

Jan 11, 2013 13:45:58 GMT Karma said:

Lobey, as you're in Scotland I expect you to get the same as Verey and I from Glenis and David!

Aye, my local MP is far too busy poncing about getting photographed at local problem hot spots to be bothered about some silly arguement in the European Parliament and the MEPs are probably too busy trying to sober up from the Festive Season to actually make it all the way to work!
Atleast that appears to be the case from their lack of any communications.

Only my MSP was back in his office the day before he was due back and not only answered my email but later that day also answered my reply to his reply. I was impressed, even although all he was going to do was pass my email to his MEP counterpart.

[hifistud]

I have taken to pointing MEPs and MPs at both Clive Bates's blog and Michael Siegel's - you might also point them at Carl Phillips's stuff as well. Response from one of the researchers attached to an MEP was that they were damned good resources as not only does Michael point out the legislation, but analyses it from a Tobacco Controller's viewpoint, and seems always to come down in favour of e-cigs.

If a particular MEP seems intransigent, then a more targeted approach looking at specific posts by Siegel might be a decent tactic. Providing more and more information can never be a bad thing.

[addict]

There are three MEPs for my (Dublin) constituency - 1 Labour Party, 1 Socialist and 1 Fine Gael (a conservative type party). I phoned today and got through to the offices of the Labour Party and Socialist MEPs but couldn't get through to the other guy's office. According to the Labour Party, they have had a lot of calls about ecigs and the MEP is "looking into it". The Socialist guy is definitely voting in favour of the directive but the person in his office said it probably won't happen until next year because it has been delayed due to complaints about lobby groups being involved. I hadn't been inspired by our politicians before the phone calls. Now I'm downright depressed.

[Deleted]

Jan 13, 2013 11:53:12 GMT hifistud said:

I have taken to pointing MEPs and MPs at both Clive Bates's blog and Michael Siegel's - you might also point them at Carl Phillips's stuff as well. Response from one of the researchers attached to an MEP was that they were damned good resources as not only does Michael point out the legislation, but analyses it from a Tobacco Controller's viewpoint, and seems always to come down in favour of e-cigs.

If a particular MEP seems intransigent, then a more targeted approach looking at specific posts by Siegel might be a decent tactic. Providing more and more information can never be a bad thing.

do you have the links to Siegels and Phillips?

[hifistud]

tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/ for Siegel and www.tobaccoharmreduction.org/ for Carl Phillips

[Acevapers]

For any members of the forum who have not contacted their local mp's I have inlcuded a link
outlining what the proposal is trying to change in the world of vaping. It sets out guidelines on what to say
when writing to your mp, such as your experiences with e-cigs, and what to ask your mp to do in terms of
stopping this proposal before it happens. Please look at the link below and use the following link to write to your MP. Please do not go unheard or else it will be too late.

www.clivebates.com/?p=739#comment-3824

www.writetothem.com/

[Acevapers]

please sign this petition it has over 18000 signatures. Please fill in the comment box.

www.petitiononline.com/fr33dom/petition.html

[GunJack]

almost 19,000 now, just signed

[Deleted]

I found this via UKV....

Good write up by the Guardian in our favour as always

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/05/e-cigarettes-tobacco-harmless-enjoyable

[lobeydosser]

Yes, good article but using words like;-

<<< Why did the EU's tobacco product directive released last month propose effectively banning any e-cigs that deliver remotely enough nicotine to make them an attractive alternative to tobacco? Isn't a "tobacco product directive" reaching beyond its remit by seeking to regulate a product containing no tobacco? Why is the sale of a device that administers a mild stimulant about as energising as a cup of coffee >>>

It is suggesting a lower level of MG than most of us use.
This is written by a one fag a day user.

[doodlebug]

Hi, all,

Long time no see, for which apologies. I've had my nose to the grindstone, though, and we have now sent our response to the Commission, copied to ALL the UK MEPs, various government ministers, assorted media, the MHRA, loads of public health experts, etc., etc. An abridged version is available from our blog: www.ecita.org.uk/blog/?p=398 and the full text together with appendices is on our website: www.ecita.org.uk/docs.html.

For anyone looking for specific information, sections 6 and 7 of our Quarterly Update Issue 2 provide same, with links. (Also available from www.ecita.org.uk/docs.html)

Hope this is helpful. I'll keep you all posted when we get a response.

Happy vaping, one and all!

Cheers,

Katherine

[gillas]

Second reply from 3 local M.E.P's


Dear Mr

Many thanks for writing to me about the important issue of the EU Tobacco Products Directive, and how it will affect electronic cigarettes.

Because e-cigarettes are a relatively new product they are regulated differently in each EU country. Some countries allow e-cigarettes to be sold without any regulation at all. Others have banned the sale of e-cigarettes. As the UK is part of the EU's internal market it is important that we harmonise the way we deal with this product, otherwise consumers could be buying unregulated products which do not conform to basic safety standards, either within their own country, or by easily purchasing it over the internet from a neighbouring country.

The European Commission has proposed that all 'nicotine containing products' with more than 2mg per unit should not be classed as tobacco products. Instead, under the Commission's proposals, nearly all e-cigarettes will need to get authorisation as a pharmaceutical product, in the same way as nicotine patches, sprays and gums.

Of course there is a balance to strike. On one hand e-cigarettes have the potential to be a helpful way to help somebody quit smoking entirely and greatly improve their health. On the other hand e-cigarettes currently can contain up to 48mg of nicotine - far more than a regular cigarette, making them highly addictive. As nicotine is the drug that makes cigarettes addictive, somebody that tries e-cigarettes could be much more likely to go on to smoke regular cigarettes. Furthermore, there is no evidence that e-cigarettes are safe, and it is concerning that they are being marketed as a 'healthy' alternative to smoking.
Currently we do not have any conclusive evidence either that e-cigarettes are helpful for giving up smoking, or that they encourage it.

While we do not have this scientific evidence to rely on I think it is
wise to have a cautious approach to e-cigarettes. If they are
effective in helping people to stop smoking, then it is appropriate that they are regulated in the same way as other smoking cessation tools, such as nicotine patches.

The Commission proposal is not final and there will be many months of negotiations by the European Parliament, as well as health ministers from the UK and other EU countries, before the legislation is agreed.
During this time Labour MEPs will be looking carefully at all of the measures and trying to find the best way to ensure that we effectively reduce smoking rates in the UK and across Europe.

Thanks again for writing to me on this important issue.

Best wishes

Stephen S Hughes MEP
North East European Constituency Office
Room 4/38
County Hall
Durham
DH1 5UR

Tel: [phone]
Fax: [phone]


Hope he is not expecting my family's support in any future elections

However i will vote for this one

Dear Mr.

Thank you for your email setting out your thoughts on a proposal issued by the European Commission to amend current European law concerning the manufacture, presentation and sale of tobacco and related products.

Among the products to be affected by the proposed changes are electronic inhalers, commonly known as personal vaporizers or e-cigarettes, which vaporize a liquid solution containing nicotine into an aerosol mist which is then inhaled to simulate the act of smoking tobacco. The Commission proposes to limit the amount of nicotine in solutions sold for use in electronic cigarettes to four milligrams of nicotine per millilitre, unless the products have been classified as for medicinal use. This would render the solution too weak to be a viable source of nicotine for smokers or ex-smokers, or would require manufacturers to apply for a costly licence to manufacture medicinal products.

You are not alone in contacting me on this issue - many constituents feel similarly strongly. I have examined the arguments and I see the potential e-cigarettes offer as harm-reduction devices to improve human health. I am particularly convinced by the fact that e-cigarettes offer concentrated nicotine to addicts without the 4000 toxins and carcinogens found in tobacco smoke, that use of e-cigarettes removes the risk posed to non-smokers (and especially to children of smokers) by second hand smoke, that e-cigarettes appeal to adult smokers seeking to quit but not generally to children or those not yet addicted to nicotine, that traditional nicotine replacement therapies proposed by the NHS and the pharmaceutical industry have had very limited success in helping smokers quit permanently, and that thousands of British e-cigarette users (and millions across the EU and the world) are likely return to smoking if the directive is amended as foreseen and nicotine concentrations are limited to 4mg/ml. I have no doubt that this will lead to a large percentage of such users dying of smoking-related diseases they might otherwise have avoided, with all the personal and societal consequences this would mean. Such arguments have led me to conclude that the proposed changes to limit permitted concentrations of nicotine solution sold in the EU are counter-productive and will do much more harm than good.

Changes to EU tobacco legislation have been expected for some time but were delayed by the recent resignation of the previous European Commissioner for Health and Consumer Affairs, John Dalli. His replacement, Tonio Borg, has expressed a desire to change the law before his mandate expires in June 2014. To prevent the proposed changes concerning e-cigarettes and all the negative consequences that would arise, we must work hard in the year ahead to build solid majorities in both the Parliament and the Council.

As a member of the Parliament's Committee on the Environment, Public Health and Food Safety I will do everything in my power to make the arguments and convince other MEPs of the foolishness of diluting nicotine solution to the point of uselessness. I would also encourage you to raise awareness among others in the vapourizing community. The internet offers considerable opportunities to draw the attention of a wide audience to the issue and to contact your elected representatives quickly and easily. If you have not already done so I would encourage you to write to your MP and request him to raise the matter in Westminster, and persuade other e-cigarette users to do the same. If we bring to the attention of the public, the political world and the media the strong arguments in favour of e-cigarettes as a harm reduction device and the number of lives which can be saved through their use, we have a very strong chance of winning the argument.

I would also be happy to receive your comments and suggestions as we move through the legislative process. I have offices in the UK and in Brussels and if there is anything else you would like to bring to my attention, please do not hesitate to get in touch. I am here to work on your behalf and represent your interests and would be delighted to hear from you.

With very best wishes for a happy and prosperous 2013,

Martin Callanan

Conservative Member of the European Parliament for the North East

Leader, European Conservatives and Reformists Group

[Deleted]

Stephen Hughes is Labour and his response is identical to those I have received from 3 other labour MEP's ...