EU Tobacco directive.

[djs]

I had the same letter as gillas and Ash.

The European Commission has proposed that all 'nicotine containing products' with more than 2mg per unit should not be classed as tobacco products. Instead, under the Commission's proposals, nearly all e-cigarettes will need to get authorisation as a pharmaceutical product, in the same way as nicotine patches, sprays and gums.

too bad...

and

During this time Labour MEPs will be looking carefully at all of the measures and trying to find the best way to ensure that we effectively reduce smoking rates in the UK and across Europe.

LOOK! You have it in your grasp to effectively reduce smoking rates in the UK and across Europe.

The time is now, the "product" is here. We stand on the verge of solving a health issue that has dogged tobacco users for bloomin' centuries.

and what do you want to do? regulate it or hand it on a platter to the NRT companies.

It's such a shame.

[lobeydosser]

Here follows the reply from one of my MEPs;-

Dear Mr XXXXX,

Many thanks for getting in touch.

I have been in contact with our group advisors regarding the Tobacco Products Directive, specifically the sections relating to electronic cigarettes, and have been informed that this is the start of what will be quite a substantial process. The proposal has only recently been published which means that the European Parliament has yet to appoint the Rapporteurs for each of the committees involved or on a timescale.
The committee which will be responsible for this file will be the Environment, Public Health and Food Safety Committee which, unfortunately, Alyn is not a member of. This committee will go through the proposal line by line, submitting specific amendments until they reach a position where the text is agreed upon by the majority of MEPs in that committee. Certain other committees in Parliament will be asked for their opinion on the text and, once this is agreed upon, the text will then be put to the full Parliament at a plenary session and, if passed, this becomes the position of the European Parliament. This then goes to the Council and, depending on whether they agree with the Parliament's position or not, the text could be amended further and sent back to Parliament again. As the European Institutions must compromise on certain aspects of legislation, this means that the final text is rarely the same as the proposed text.

As a result of this there is very little that I or any other MEP can do to influence this directive at this stage. We have received a number of emails from constituents on this matter and will bear the concerns in mind.

One of the main concerns that has been raised with us by constituents is that the Commission is proposing to ban electronic cigarettes under the new Directive. This is certainly not the case. Instead, the proposal states:

"Extension of the scope of the Directive : Nicotine Containing Products (e.g. electronic cigarettes) below a certain nicotine threshold are allowed on the market, but must feature health warnings; above this threshold such products are only allowed if authorised as medicinal products, like nicotine replacement therapies. Herbal cigarettes will have to carry health warnings" (Page 9 of proposal and article 18 on page 39)

However, as I have said, this may be subject to amendments by the committees involved and so may change.

I thank you for your interest.

Yours aye

Alyn Smith MEP

[Deleted]

Just received a 4th identical response from yet another Labour MEP ...

going to phone their office tomorrow and try to contact their campaigns officer ... :-)

[Karma]

That looks familiar lobey

[Banky]

I received this today,


Many thanks for getting in touch.

I have been in contact with our group advisors regarding the Tobacco
Products Directive, specifically the sections relating to electronic
cigarettes, and have been informed that this is the start of what will
be quite a substantial process. The proposal has only recently been
published which means that the European Parliament has yet to appoint
the Rapporteurs for each of the committees involved or on a timescale.
The committee which will be responsible for this file will be the
Environment, Public Health and Food Safety Committee which,
unfortunately, Alyn is not a member of. This committee will go through
the proposal line by line, submitting specific amendments until they
reach a position where the text is agreed upon by the majority of MEPs
in that committee. Certain other committees in Parliament will be
asked for their opinion on the text and, once this is agreed upon, the
text will then be put to the full Parliament at a plenary session and,
if passed, this becomes the position of the European Parliament. This
then goes to the Council and, depending on whether they agree with the
Parliament's position or not, the text could be amended further and
sent back to Parliament again. As the European Institutions must
compromise on certain aspects of legislation, this means that the
final text is rarely the same as the proposed text.

As a result of this there is very little that
I or any other MEP can do to influence this directive at this stage. We
have
received a number of emails from constituents on this matter and will
bear the concerns in mind.

One of the main concerns that has been raised with us by constituents
is that the Commission is proposing to ban electronic cigarettes under
the new Directive. This is certainly not the case. Instead, the
proposal states:

"Extension of the scope of the Directive : Nicotine Containing
Products (e.g. electronic cigarettes) below a certain nicotine
threshold are allowed on the market, but must feature health warnings;
above this threshold such products are only allowed if authorised as
medicinal products, like nicotine replacement therapies. Herbal
cigarettes will have to carry health warnings" (Page 9 of proposal and
article 18 on page 39)

However, as I have said, this may be subject to amendments by the
committees involved and so may change.

I thank you for your interest.

Yours aye

Alyn Smith MEP

[djs]

Jan 17, 2013 16:36:44 GMT lobeydosser said:

Here follows the reply from one of my MEPs;-

Dear Mr XXXXX,

Whoaaa. Mr 5 "X".

(sorry, couldn't help it...)

[womble]

So Labour have received enough emails about the subject to do a std letter.

If you think about it, it's a good sign.

I'm thinking we need more emails to them now which work on the points this letter has raised, try to get our views across and explain why turning ecigs into a medical product would be terrible for vapers and someone wanting to start vaping.

[lobeydosser]

Jan 18, 2013 21:27:27 GMT djs said:

Jan 17, 2013 16:36:44 GMT lobeydosser said:

Here follows the reply from one of my MEPs;-

Dear Mr XXXXX,

Whoaaa. Mr 5 "X".

(sorry, couldn't help it...)

I'm a divorced Australian.

An X 4X.

[hifistud]

Jan 16, 2013 22:58:27 GMT @ashmal said:

Stephen Hughes is Labour and his response is identical to those I have received from 3 other labour MEP's ...

I'm told he's also standing down at the next election.

[lazydog]

Dear Mr XXXXXX

Thank you for your email about the revised European Tobacco Directive.

The West Midlands region is represented by three Conservative MEPs: me, Philip Bradbourn OBE MEP and Malcolm Harbour MEP. We have therefore divided the region geographically between the three of us, and since I am responsible for Cradley Heath, I take this opportunity to reply on behalf of all three.

The directive will be coming before the Environment, Public Health and Food Safety Committee at the European Parliament for consideration in 2013. At this stage the proposals by the European Commission include regulating packaging and the composition of cigarettes and related products including electronic cigarettes.

My personal opinion is that I recognise that there are health implications to smoking and believe that there should be public awareness but once informed, there should also be freedom of choice.

That said this freedom should not impinge on the freedom of others so a pragmatic solution must be found. Smoking has health implications for smokers but science has proved that there are also implications for passive smokers as well. Advertising and the presentation of smoking at present needs to be looked at and I believe that this directive will do just that.

More than ten years have passed since the adoption of the current directive on the issue, during which time various developments have occurred. In response to this, I look forward to making concrete contributions towards the proposed directive when the time arrives.

With reference to your specific comments on electric cigarettes, the directive will look at this aspect, and I myself would be very interested in the scientific background that specifically relates to the health effects before making any final judgements.

Moreover, in the meantime, I would suggest that you contact your own MP, James Morris ([e-mail]) to make him aware of your concerns about the Directive and in particular the parts relating to electronic cigarettes with the possibility that the implementation of this part of the directive could seriously affect your health.

Thank you again for writing to me.

Yours sincerely

Anthea McIntyre MEP


I have now replied with a few links to evidence showing the testing that has been done I now await my next reply!

[deesigner]

I've just spoken to my MP's secretary and need to email him all the details of what's going on and what we want. I need to do the same with the local MEP's. Only problem is that I'm crap at pulling information together and haven't got the time to trawl through everything. Is there something that I can pinch that I can send to get the ball rolling please?

[giles]

I got the same reply from Catherine Bearder that others have had. Clearly didn't read my letter. Does anyone live near enough to her to go see her?

[giles]

Jan 22, 2013 12:44:26 GMT deesigner said:

I've just spoken to my MP's secretary and need to email him all the details of what's going on and what we want. I need to do the same with the local MEP's. Only problem is that I'm crap at pulling information together and haven't got the time to trawl through everything. Is there something that I can pinch that I can send to get the ball rolling please?

You really need to write your own, tell your own story. But for what it's worth my last letter out was :
Dear Mr Taylor

I am writing to you to urge you to reject the recommendations of the proposed Revision of the Tobacco Products Directive produced by the European Commission (2012/0366(COD) produced on 19/12/2012) as they apply to the use of electronic cigarettes. If they are not rejected then thousands of people, maybe tens of thousands, will die younger than they need to. I may well be one of them.

I started smoking as a child, and went on to roll the equivalent of a pack a day for 45 years and was unable to give up. Six months ago I tried one of the mass-produced electronic cigarettes – more out of curiosity than anything else – and realised straight away that while that particular device was nowhere near good enough to replace my roll-ups, the technology was; after that it was a search, which took about three weeks, to find the products which worked for me.

Since then I have tried exactly one real cigarette. I thought it vastly inferior to the electronic cigarette I was using, so I didn't finish it. This is a common reaction in people who have been using electronic cigarettes for some time and have found a product that suits them. In many cases (including my own) we no longer use tobacco flavours at all.

The EU proposal would allow only two types of e-cigarette – ones at strength of less than 4mg and volume less that 2mg; and approved pharmaceutical products with no “characterizing flavours”. It is important to understand that neither of these would meet the needs of those who have successfully switched from smoking to e-cigarettes.

Nobody uses e-cigs at 4mg – it is essentially the equivalent of “near beer”. Normal strength is about 20mg. Some of us (including me) use zero-nicotine juices sometimes. We wouldn't bother to use 4mg instead – there would be no practical difference. Heavy smokers transferring to e-cigarettes tend to use 20-25mg initially, and then reduce a little. If they tried 4mg they'd just give up and go back to smoking.

“characterizing flavours” are a vital part of e-cig usage. The pharmaceutical companies do not currently make any electronic cigarettes, concentrating instead on trying to get them banned and promoting NRT products instead. If they ever did produce a product, neither their own policies nor the proposed EU legislation would allow them to make a product which would be sufficiently satisfying to the millions of users of electronic cigarettes to keep them from returning to smoking.

The EU report gives current figures of 750,000 smokers in the UK and 1.3 million in Germany, and quotes a growth rate of “20% to 30% per month”. Long-term success of e- cigarettes in getting people off smoking is generally quoted at around 30% (compared to about 2% for NRT). Consequently we should start to see a reduction in the number of smokers fairly soon. I have been unable to find the numbers for the UK for 2011; the figure for Scotland reduced by 2% compared to 2010, compared to the normal reduction of 0.5% p.a. - a change which ASH described as “significant” without offering any explanation. I believe that a large part of the difference is attributable to e-cigarettes.

There is much anecdotal evidence that success rate for stopping smoking for those who have taken the path that I did, and use the more sophisticated products available on the internet is much higher than 30%. Figures in excess of 90% are often quoted, and many of us believe that a high proportion of the 30% claimed by companies such as Nicolite are people who started with their products but went on to something better.

Consequently I am sure that it is vital that the market for the more sophisticated products be allowed to flourish. Improved products are appearing all the time, and this research must not be strangled because the better the products get, the fewer people return to smoking.

I do appreciate that some regulation of this market is required, but it must encourage growth of the market, not destroy it. The EU proposal essentially models the regulation on NRT products. I believe that it should instead be modelled on legislation relating to alcohol, with laws against sales to minors, requirements for quality control, proper labelling, advertising control and so on; but not laws against “characterising flavours” and not requiring them to be pharmaceutical products.

I am certain that my health has improved in the six months since I changed to e-cigarettes, and I believe that there is compelling evidence that e-cigarettes are far better for the health than smoking.

Can I ask you to assure me that you will not support any EU directive that will have the effect of removing electronic cigarettes from the market, or stopping their product development? And that you will raise these concerns with the commission and speak out against regulations which will stop the growth in usage of e-cigarettes? And finally can I ask you to contact Dan Jorgensen so that he can represent these views on the ENVI committee?

Yours sincerely
Giles Brisbourne

(Taylor is Green party, Jorgensen is the Greens' rep on the ENVI committee, which reviews EU proposals in this field)

[deesigner]

Nice one, I've done it, mine's a little bit simpler than yours but I think I've got the main points across and I've given some links to research

I've written to my local MP and the West Midlands 7 MEP's. Will wait and see now.

[lobeydosser]

<<< Heavy smokers transferring to e-cigarettes tend to use 20-25mg initially, and then reduce a little. >>>

Actually "heavy smokers" transferring to e-cigs can use anything between 30mg and 45mg and some of them will choose not to reduce their mg level in the future.

We should be very careful about what we say to MPs and MEPs lest we dig a grave for ourselves and have them lay down rules that while may suit some, would be next to useless for others.

I doubt very much if I would still be 100% vaping if I had to limit my top nic strength to 25mg.