Drip fed the future of e cigs and vaping.

[ant]

Mar 3, 2013 19:11:51 GMT gillas said:

Ant, I think big Pharma will get control, if the MRHA are able to get their way and regulate anything over 4mg as a medical product then they will have control.

I suspect that they will then sell under licence and only the Tobacco Companies will be able to afford the licences ( rumour has it that a separate licence will be required for every brand, strength and flavour)

My suspicion would be this is the aim and then the government can put their tax on it!

Gillas, sorry I missed this post. The high tax on tobacco 'was' due to the health issues of the nation, how can this be justified? I know they are sneaky XXXX's though. Could this be classed as discrimination?

[oxo]

Mar 3, 2013 20:35:28 GMT Roger said:

Mar 3, 2013 19:23:07 GMT oxo said:

Pharmaceutical e juice is mentioned in the EU proposals and was announced in to days papers that doctors are likely to be able to give it on prescription.

So I guess im wrong in saying big pharma have an interest or would like to get the most profitable share of the market.


I have no use for 2mg others on the board clearly do so sorry if me thinking they should go all the way and ban the 2mg while there at it.


Happy vaping  and remember folks aspartame is not a wise choice to sweeten up yer juice.

I

You are not reading what others are writing. Yes BP have an interest, nobody has said they want 2mg. But to say ban it completely is very narrow thinking. Have a good read on here and other forums about what is being done.

I have read through the EU proposals. They say not above 2mg for recreational there after its a medicinal product.
What matters is what the EMPs are doing or plan to do, if you have any links post them up.
Writing letters is well meaning but its the content of the response that matters, can you sort me with relevant links ?
links to forum posts wont change any outcome.
Talking of caffeine and alcohol wont change anything.
Its ok to broaden the discussion but you have to realise the options on the table are limited and out of our hands.
Its with the bureaucrats and Im totally against begging them for a poultry 2mg maybe 4mg so long as I continue to be the cash cow continuation of the tobacco tax.  

[kibbster]

Mar 3, 2013 21:24:13 GMT oxo said:

Mar 3, 2013 20:35:28 GMT Roger said:

You are not reading what others are writing. Yes BP have an interest, nobody has said they want 2mg. But to say ban it completely is very narrow thinking. Have a good read on here and other forums about what is being done.

I have read through the EU proposals. They say not above 2mg for recreational there after its a medicinal product.
What matters is what the EMPs are doing or plan to do, if you have any links post them up.
Writing letters is well meaning but its the content of the response that matters, can you sort me with relevant links ?
links to forum posts wont change any outcome.
Talking of caffeine and alcohol wont change anything.
Its ok to broaden the discussion but you have to realise the options on the table are limited and out of our hands.
Its with the bureaucrats and Im totally against begging them for a poultry 2mg maybe 4mg so long as I continue to be the cash cow continuation of the tobacco tax.  

It's not out of our hands though.
In in the hands of politicians and they in turn are paid by tax payers money and work for us... they just need reminding of that sometimes, hence the letter writing campaign to MPs.

We can change the process, it won't be easy but it can be done and HAS to be done.

If we sit on our arses and say "I can't change anything" then you know what the result will be. 

[davess]

Mar 3, 2013 21:29:29 GMT kibbster said:

Mar 3, 2013 21:24:13 GMT oxo said:

I have read through the EU proposals. They say not above 2mg for recreational there after its a medicinal product.
What matters is what the EMPs are doing or plan to do, if you have any links post them up.
Writing letters is well meaning but its the content of the response that matters, can you sort me with relevant links ?
links to forum posts wont change any outcome.
Talking of caffeine and alcohol wont change anything.
Its ok to broaden the discussion but you have to realise the options on the table are limited and out of our hands.
Its with the bureaucrats and Im totally against begging them for a poultry 2mg maybe 4mg so long as I continue to be the cash cow continuation of the tobacco tax.  

It's not out of our hands though.
In in the hands of politicians and they in turn are paid by tax payers money and work for us... they just need reminding of that sometimes, hence the letter writing campaign to MPs.

We can change the process, it won't be easy but it can be done and HAS to be done.

If we sit on our arses and say "I can't change anything" then you know what the result will be. 

My thinking exactly. Oxo appears to have thrown in the towel before the fights begun.

[oxo]

Mar 3, 2013 21:29:29 GMT kibbster said:

Mar 3, 2013 21:24:13 GMT oxo said:

I have read through the EU proposals. They say not above 2mg for recreational there after its a medicinal product.
What matters is what the EMPs are doing or plan to do, if you have any links post them up.
Writing letters is well meaning but its the content of the response that matters, can you sort me with relevant links ?
links to forum posts wont change any outcome.
Talking of caffeine and alcohol wont change anything.
Its ok to broaden the discussion but you have to realise the options on the table are limited and out of our hands.
Its with the bureaucrats and Im totally against begging them for a poultry 2mg maybe 4mg so long as I continue to be the cash cow continuation of the tobacco tax.  

It's not out of our hands though.
In in the hands of politicians and they in turn are paid by tax payers money and work for us... they just need reminding of that sometimes, hence the letter writing campaign to MPs.

We can change the process, it won't be easy but it can be done and HAS to be done.

If we sit on our arses and say "I can't change anything" then you know what the result will be. 

Do you wont a vote of if the uk stays in the EU ?
Cameron will give you one in 2017 I can post you a youtube of him slaging brown of and demanding one back in 2009/
Give me any example of an mp not doing a uturn on what they promised the electorate,
You like the carrot on the stick and thats all it is untill you can show me a letter off one MP or EMP that will break ranks and go against the party line and advertise the fact that he/she will support ecigs and the vaping community.

[MarkS]

It's like the lottery oxo.

If you buy a ticket the probability of you winning is next to zero. If you do not buy a ticket the chances of you winning are zero.

It's easy to knock it when you are doing nothing. Convert your energy into doing something and you might make a change.

[kibbster]

Personally yes I want the opportunity to vote and have my say.
But writing to our MPs on this isn't about parties or my personal politics, it's about my way of life and freedom to choose a safer alternative to smoking and enjoy nicotine that is my right.

My MP is conservative and that makes no difference to me what so ever, he could be UKIP or (shudder) BNP if that's what he was and I'd go there and say the same.
Whatever party he's with he's still my representative in parliament and can lobby the government on his own personal issues for all I care, but I'll have my say and try and get him to persuade his colleges to go along with my cause.

[kibbster]

The same goes for my MEPs, they may all be useless or they may not agree with me but if all 700,000+ vpaers wrote to their MPs and MEPs do you think they'd think it was insignificant?
We are already making waves, people all over are contacting MPs, ECITA are representing us in EU meetings and the mainstream press are talking about vaping.
The more people that vape the more people become aware of it and the harder it is for the Borg to carry out his own personal vendetta towards nicotine.

The man is a liar and has made it personal, his stupid proposals need to be shot down in flames (hopefully with him in it) and we need people to take the science and known facts seriously so they don't make a huge, misguided error of biblical proportions and kill 10 million people in the EU by removing access to a viable safer alternative to smoking.

If you are happy to vape 4mg or less then knock yourself out, but if you aren't and you don't do anything to defend your choice you can't blame anyone else when you lose your freedom.


As a side note, do you know how many people are working very hard and throwing themselves to the wolves in the EU to defend your right to vape if you wish?
A lot of people are putting everything they have to help me and they don't even know me, the least I can do is do the same for them and everyone else on this forum, in the UK and across the EU.

[farzooks]

Mar 3, 2013 18:54:36 GMT MarkS said:

Just to add, you haven't ever opened the fridge and accidentally drank any e-juice thinking it was food have you? 

Why, I did that just last week.
Oh, wait a minute; that was Ecstasy juice.
Wheeeee...

[kibbster]

According to the Eu we are all stupid and this is a real danger!

I'm surprised they don't warn people not to use a toaster in the bath.

[farzooks]

Mar 3, 2013 19:03:17 GMT ant said:

Oxo, I'm finding it quite difficult to understand you are trying to say. I think it highly unlikley Big Pharma will get control of this, why have they not taken control of alcohol or caffeine? All smoke and mirrors...

Too many powerful vested interests already in place, controlling those for generations. Big Pharma would have a fight on its hands it couldn't win.
See, it's all about manipulation and cornering a market - in the great free and unfettered days when such things were just being established, there wasn't such a thing as control. But wait, there was. The King gave you a licence to do such things. You also paid him taxes.
Nothing new about any of this - it's all happened before and the only difference is the cut of the suits involved.

[oxo]

You have chosen the route you believe to be right and I can only wish you luck.

Ive given up on democracy a while back, each to there own


I started the thread under the false assumption the cap was 20mg.
It was quickly pointed out I was out by a full decimal at those kind of levels I see no negotiation.
The thread is effectively dead as I thought I could tweak my habit within 20mg.
Now I now how things stand Ill collect a decent  stash  to the side and wean myself down to hopefully flavoured juice .

Nothings going to happen overnight so I can see myself hanging out picking up mixing tips which is why I originals signed up.

[WhamBamSam]

Mar 3, 2013 19:01:51 GMT MarkS said:

Big Farma





Big Pharma

I have just choked on my Egg Custard Tart and spat coffee all over the screen, there.

Sorry that I have nothing valid to contribute to this debate, but I just really, really appreciated that! Thanks!

[gillas]

As I understand it; The Tory line is to support e-cigs - but if we wait until 2017 we will all be back on the stinkies.

Unles this MEP is breaking the party line.(received 7th Jan 2013)

Dear Mr. xxxxxxx,

Thank you for your email setting out your thoughts on a proposal issued by the European Commission to amend current European law concerning the manufacture, presentation and sale of tobacco and related products.

Among the products to be affected by the proposed changes are electronic inhalers, commonly known as personal vaporizers or e-cigarettes, which vaporize a liquid solution containing nicotine into an aerosol mist which is then inhaled to simulate the act of smoking tobacco. The Commission proposes to limit the amount of nicotine in solutions sold for use in electronic cigarettes to four milligrams of nicotine per millilitre, unless the products have been classified as for medicinal use. This would render the solution too weak to be a viable source of nicotine for smokers or ex-smokers, or would require manufacturers to apply for a costly licence to manufacture medicinal products.

You are not alone in contacting me on this issue - many constituents feel similarly strongly. I have examined the arguments and I see the potential e-cigarettes offer as harm-reduction devices to improve human health. I am particularly convinced by the fact that e-cigarettes offer concentrated nicotine to addicts without the 4000 toxins and carcinogens found in tobacco smoke, that use of e-cigarettes removes the risk posed to non-smokers (and especially to children of smokers) by second hand smoke, that e-cigarettes appeal to adult smokers seeking to quit but not generally to children or those not yet addicted to nicotine, that traditional nicotine replacement therapies proposed by the NHS and the pharmaceutical industry have had very limited success in helping smokers quit permanently, and that thousands of British e-cigarette users (and millions across the EU and the world) are likely return to smoking if the directive is amended as foreseen and nicotine concentrations are limited to 4mg/ml. I have no doubt that this will lead to a large percentage of such users dying of smoking-related diseases they might otherwise have avoided, with all the personal and societal consequences this would mean. Such arguments have led me to conclude that the proposed changes to limit permitted concentrations of nicotine solution sold in the EU are counter-productive and will do much more harm than good.

Changes to EU tobacco legislation have been expected for some time but were delayed by the recent resignation of the previous European Commissioner for Health and Consumer Affairs, John Dalli. His replacement, Tonio Borg, has expressed a desire to change the law before his mandate expires in June 2014. To prevent the proposed changes concerning e-cigarettes and all the negative consequences that would arise, we must work hard in the year ahead to build solid majorities in both the Parliament and the Council.

As a member of the Parliament's Committee on the Environment, Public Health and Food Safety I will do everything in my power to make the arguments and convince other MEPs of the foolishness of diluting nicotine solution to the point of uselessness. I would also encourage you to raise awareness among others in the vapourizing community. The internet offers considerable opportunities to draw the attention of a wide audience to the issue and to contact your elected representatives quickly and easily. If you have not already done so I would encourage you to write to your MP and request him to raise the matter in Westminster, and persuade other e-cigarette users to do the same. If we bring to the attention of the public, the political world and the media the strong arguments in favour of e-cigarettes as a harm reduction device and the number of lives which can be saved through their use, we have a very strong chance of winning the argument.

I would also be happy to receive your comments and suggestions as we move through the legislative process. I have offices in the UK and in Brussels and if there is anything else you would like to bring to my attention, please do not hesitate to get in touch. I am here to work on your behalf and represent your interests and would be delighted to hear from you.

With very best wishes for a happy and prosperous 2013,

Martin Callanan

Conservative Member of the European Parliament for the North East

Leader, European Conservatives and Reformists Group
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I don't vote Tory or UKIP, but would certainly consider it if Labour don't change tact.

[ant]

Is that a photo of Brad Pitt?