What we have to deal with

[lobeydosser]

I have alreeady got one Stewarty. Care to join me?

[stewarty]

Apr 20, 2013 23:10:00 GMT lobeydosser said:

I have alreeady got one Stewarty. Care to join me?

Spent over 20 years running a commercial greenhouse Lobey.... Nicotine was one of the staples till they banned it lol along with everything else that worked!!!!

[lobeydosser]

Apr 20, 2013 23:35:50 GMT stewarty said:

Apr 20, 2013 23:10:00 GMT lobeydosser said:

I have alreeady got one Stewarty. Care to join me?

Spent over 20 years running a commercial greenhouse Lobey.... Nicotine was one of the staples till they banned it lol along with everything else that worked!!!!

Pity that or we would be buying our nicotine in 45 gallon drums.

[womble]

Apr 20, 2013 16:50:50 GMT lobeydosser said:

There are some myths to vaping, like residual vapour and the effects that that may have on people around a vaper.

Anyone who thinks that vaping is a clean form of nicotine delivery just has to look at the inside of the window of the room they choose to do most of their vaping in!

It may not have the tar that smoking leaves behind, but we have yet to find out just what is in that residual and if it would cause others harm.

Although I think this is nothing to do with this persons worry about vaping, I agree with you entirely.
I haven't found deposits on windows, yet I still wonder about the vapour left after breathing it out, we all vape in different ways, often I won't take in the vapour for a moment, so the nicotine must still be in it? And I know I'm not alone. Any vapours video will tell you the same thing.

Also the no smell thing, my vapes smell plenty! Not as much as fags for sure, but the flavour is easily smelt by others.

[lobeydosser]

If I am sitting vaping in the lounge, my wife, sitting on the far side, can tell me the base flavours of whatever I am vaping.
I cannot taste or smell these, all I get is what the bottle says it is, but if I am on say a tobacco flavour, she is picking up vanilla and liquorice and you name it, she smells it.

Also if I have been vaping all evening, there is a hazey cloud drifting around the room. Not as dense as cigarette smoke but still there and quite distinct.

Oh, and if I vape Disco Des's Melon Bomb last thing at night she will comment on the "nice cinnamon smell" when she comes down in the morning.

So vaping residue does have its good points too.

[markm]

I think the smell is mostly from the small amounts of vaper that haven't been inhaled.
Take a deep draw, then put a tissue over your mouth and exhale through it.
When I have tried it, all I can detect is an odourless damp patch.

Another thing that has been mentioned several times now is the notion that
the exhaled vapur still has 40% of its nic. This can not be the case as studies of
air impurities in a closed room with vapours has found only tiny amounts of nicotine
to be in the atmosphere. Second hand nicotine is a myth, one that needs stamping
out whenever it raises its ugly head.

[Moggy]

I wouldn't necessarily say its a total myth, but it has an extremely low 'risk profile' as referred to in my earlier post.

As for the window residue, it's certainly a nicer thing to clean off than the yellow residue left streaking down them from smoking. When I bought my current house we had to wash all the walls and ceilings with a really strong solution to remove the buildup of the 60/day chain smoker who lived here before. I have always smoked outside, or in the shed if its raining, Mr Smokey misses his 'extra cuddles' and still leaps off the armchair if he hears a rattle that sounds like my tobacco tin.

[Blownupdolly]

Maybe due to my rapidly advancing years and the apparent notion that we become more comfortable in our own skin, I find that I really don't care less what others think about anything I do. Call it selfish if you like, but I am not going to waste a single second of what's left of my life worrying about the opinions of people i do not know or care about.
This doesn't mean i do not treat others with respect. On the contrary. I always try to respect everyone around me as a matter of course. BUT, if I am not doing anything illegal as far as I am concerned i will do it.

If they want to whinge and moan about what we do, let them. It is their oxygen they are wasting.

Now, I am off out for a trip in the countryside to enjoy the sunshine and wil be puffing away to my hearts content.

[glenn25]

I think it's brought on by people's view on cigs, you can't make something that produces (as far as they can see) the exact same sort of effect and expect them to instantly be cool with the idea. People will still say 'I'm breathing in the smoke your breathing out' and that's a mental connection thats hard to break after all the anti-smoking campaigning.

My dad asked me the other day if it was harmful, i told him yes as far as we o and that very little evidence suggested otherwise and that most of that evidence came from people with an interest in NRT drugs. He still wasn't happy and confessed that a girl at work had started to vape at work at her desk and he wanted it banned at work, but what he left out was that she still smoked and went for fag breaks (these are a given without effect of her lunch hour as the place has always been ok with smokers as long as they didn't take the P***) and then came back and would vape more than she worked.

People are always going to take this the wrong way, my dad has nothing against vaping and is glad i've stopped smoking but this girl could ruin being able to vape at his place coz she is taking this to far. I know you might say it's unfair to ban it just coz one girl took the P*** but with all the protection employees have they are just finding a reason to pull her up on something.

I tend to vape only where i smoked with the exception of in the care (as long as the kids aren't in) and the house (as long as the kids aren't in the same room) I did smoke at a bar once but they told me not to. I view it like dogs, it's not against the law to bring a dog into a shop but most would ask you to leave the dog outside

[markm]

Back to the original question.

The answer to your neighbour "I will agree you have the right to complain about the vaper at the bar, provided you
agree that the vegetarian at the next table can stop you ordering meat!"

I challenge him to fid a single point that will make either complaint more valid or reasonable.
If anything the vegetarian may have the advantage.

[glenn25]

I don't think it's quite the same thing though, your still exhaling a vapour that, however harmless, people are going to be breathing in. We seem to be in agreement that the vapour we breath out is harmless but it could turn out to have some bad qualities as for as health is concerned (doubt it and hope not) or more likely the restaurant/pub could lose a few customer because the proper research doesn't yet exist in our favour on a level that most doctors would tell you it's fine to do (guess the NRT companies will always have one up on us there)

Whereas vegetarians just eat without producing something that to the untrained eye looks like smoke.

either way I think that if it is just one vaper in the place and two or more people complained then vaping in there would be banned and that would be that.

[lobeydosser]

I see from the answers here that there are some rather strongly held believes on both sides, however there will, in the future and as vaping becomes more popular, be some stringent rules brought out regarding where and when vaping is permissible.
At the moment, these rules are the at the discretion of the premises owners and until there is a parlimentry ruling on vaping, it will remain so.

Those of the anti-smoking fraternity used arbitrary excuses for pushing through the smoking ban in enclosed spaces and now we are using these same arbitrary excuses to flaunt the law by saying that because vaping is different, then we are not breaking the law.
That may work for a while, but thanks to the small minority of vapers who are hell bent on pushing their "vaping rights" to the limit, it is only going to push the law makers of this country towards coming up with a ruling that targets vaping specifically.

I vape in the house and out in the street and less than 0.1% of my vaping takes place in other premises, so any parliamentry ruling is not going to affect me very much, no matter how stringent it may be.
However there are folks who vape at work and these folks will be very much affected by a law on vaping and it is these folks I feel sorry for.
Typicle of any ruling on a specific subject, it will have been brought in to curb the excesses of the minority but spoil the freedoms the majority.

[glenn25]

I think you've summed it up brilliantly lobeydosser

[markm]

Apr 21, 2013 15:32:14 GMT glenn25 said:

I don't think it's quite the same thing though, your still exhaling a vapour that, however harmless, people are going to be breathing in. We seem to be in agreement that the vapour we breath out is harmless but it could turn out to have some bad qualities as for as health is concerned (doubt it and hope not) or more likely the restaurant/pub could lose a few customer because the proper research doesn't yet exist in our favour on a level that most doctors would tell you it's fine to do (guess the NRT companies will always have one up on us there)

Whereas vegetarians just eat without producing something that to the untrained eye looks like smoke.

either way I think that if it is just one vaper in the place and two or more people complained then vaping in there would be banned and that would be that.

But is has been tested and it has been found that there are no significant effects to air quality.
CASAA in America are in the process of commissioning an academic review of all the studies
so that they can be pulled together and presented in a format that non scientists can digest.
They have commission an independent researcher to do this, but expect there to be no
unexpected findings and that it will demonstrate to everyone that there is no health affects.
That is why the only real complaint is that of causing offence to the spectator, but without
there being anything more to it than it looks a bit like something else. That is why the vegetarian
would win the argument, they would tell you stuff that would put you off your meal.

Please forget the "we don't really know" - that is so out of date its funny, the same could be said
about a flat earth!

[lobeydosser]

Hi Markem, There have already been members on here who are saying that their OHs have serious breathing issues with them vaping in the house, so there are clearly effects of some sort.

Whatever the "facts" (???) that some researchers are coming up with, you can be sure that the only published research is that that will promote whatever they are attempting to promote.

The bottom line is that some people do react to exhaled vapour and therefore it is not safe in 100% of the population. No matter what has been researched so far.