What we have to deal with

[moonraker]

If we were all the same it would be a boring world The only thing I know is vaping is 100s times safer than smoking I also think I have seen a card that explains about the legalities of vaping in public places

[womble]

Apr 19, 2013 12:42:40 GMT andym said:

It sounds to me that this bloke is just one of them that will always moan.He obviously doesnt understand the Smoking Ban.When youre vaping youre not breaking the Law against smoking.

1.You are not combusting tobacco.
2.You are not inhaling SMOKE.
3.Currently it is not Illegal to Vape in Public Spaces.
4.All current research points out that Vaping is a FAR safer way to obtain a nicotine "fix".


If e cigs had been around in the 70's,i bet he would have had a go.Just because you say he is an "Educated" person,it doesnt follow that he is endowed will intelligence or common sense.I also would bet that he suffers from Haemorrhoids as well.Its a well established fact that serious Pile sufferers have no or very little sense of humour!He needs to chill out and find something else to vent his spleen on.Is he henpecked at home i wonder?

I've been through those point with him till I was red in the face, my Mrs jumped in at one point and said she probably would have felt the same if she hadn't been around me vaping alot and picked up all the info.
But she also asked him if someone was using an inhalator, but no "smoke" came out of it, would that be OK and he accepted it probably would, so obviously I jumped in and said that proves my point! You are only worried about it as it looks like smoking....... but it's not!
To which he sort of agreed.

He can be a bit of a one track mind bloke and his education only really matters because I wanted to show he wasn't a read it in the Mail and agree with it bloke, he makes his own mind up and is ultra intelligent.
I am surprised tbh that he thinks this way and he's seen me start vaping and carry on for 20 months. I also vape in his house and he's never minded.

It's good to see in the mind of and talk to the enemy of vaping I think, it's easy to sit back and moan at the world for not understanding vaping and trying to ban it.

Jebus, I've done my side of the work to educate others though, I'll let it sink in a for a few days and have another go

[womble]

Apr 19, 2013 11:23:34 GMT Moggy said:

It was written in an article (I'll try to find it) that the exhaled vapour contains no more trace nicotine than the caffeine contained in a cup of coffee.

If you do find that, I would very much like to read it.

[Moggy]

womble Not the one I read before, but it does mention the "risk profile" of passive-vaping, which I guess is his concern.

www.ecigarettedirect.co.uk/ashtray-blog/2012/03/electronic-cigarettes-passive-smoking.html

[giles]

You have too much respect for education womble. For what it's worth, I'm pretty damn educated myself, and I can assure you that being educated doesn't mean that you are necessarily sensible, reasonable, or tolerant.

It was years before they found the dangers of smoking because nobody looked for them. Big pharma and big tobacco have spent a lot of money trying to find dangers in ecigs and have failed to do so. There is good evidence that vapour is harmless - unlike, for instance, your friend's beer fumes, which haven't been tested at all.

I don't vape in the car with my grandkids, or even in the room. I don't take them down a road with heavy traffic either if there is a reasonable alternative - the exhaust fumes are more dangerous than our vapour. It doesn't mean that I think that either of these things are of massive importance. I'm not trying to ban the use of cars because the exhaust is bad for babies.

If your friend finds vaping unpleasant then he should be able to eat where there isn't any. Fortunately there are plenty of places where he can. If you want to vape in a pub, then as long as there are places where they don't mind serving you, you should be allowed to do so, and your friend has no right to suggest otherwise.

[womble]

Apr 19, 2013 13:50:14 GMT giles said:

You have too much respect for education womble. For what it's worth, I'm pretty damn educated myself, and I can assure you that being educated doesn't mean that you are necessarily sensible, reasonable, or tolerant.

OK, lets try to drop the education angle, I only bought it up to try to show how intelligent he was. Probably a bad choice of words. He's very smart and intelligent, like top few % of the population at a guess and a very good friend of mine. But at times he does have some odd values.

[womble]

Apr 19, 2013 13:50:14 GMT giles said:

It was years before they found the dangers of smoking because nobody looked for them. Big pharma and big tobacco have spent a lot of money trying to find dangers in ecigs and have failed to do so. There is good evidence that vapour is harmless - unlike, for instance, your friend's beer fumes, which haven't been tested at all.

I don't vape in the car with my grandkids, or even in the room. I don't take them down a road with heavy traffic either if there is a reasonable alternative - the exhaust fumes are more dangerous than our vapour. It doesn't mean that I think that either of these things are of massive importance. I'm not trying to ban the use of cars because the exhaust is bad for babies.

If your friend finds vaping unpleasant then he should be able to eat where there isn't any. Fortunately there are plenty of places where he can. If you want to vape in a pub, then as long as there are places where they don't mind serving you, you should be allowed to do so, and your friend has no right to suggest otherwise.

I agree totally, just as I agree with most of the rest of the comments and I've said most of them to him already. He just seems blind to them.

Oddly he's not that bothered about the vaping being bad for health. He's more bothered about people getting round the smoking ban in pubs by vaping. An odd stance I know and things got a little heated yesterday when I just kept repeating, "but it's not smoking"..........

[giles]

Maybe he'll shut up about it. If he doesn't, tell him he's just getting round it too - "by not smoking, just like me".

[markm]

I can see a number of barriers here.
First of all the anti smoking campaigners have empowered anyone to complain about their airspace being polluted by smokers.
A vaper is still a smoker in the eyes of the non smoker - doubly so in the traditional reformed smokers view.
You then have the issue of ecigs being a device for smokers to cheat the smoking ban, this is a real viewpoint. Even some
vapers start out with this notion.

My personal viewpoint is that smoking and vaping are not connected in any way - apart from the EX Smoker stuck on the end.
In my view a smoker who starts vaping and discovers they no longer want to use cigarettes, how does that make vaping the same
as smoking?
if someone discovers religion - I would not dare accuse a born again Christian of being a drunken lout!
If someone starts going to the Gym and eating healthy I wouldn't call a rowing machine an cream cake factory.
The two things a concurrent - not directly connected!

[Deleted]

Apr 19, 2013 14:13:03 GMT womble said:

OK, lets try to drop the education angle, I only bought it up to try to show how intelligent he was. Probably a bad choice of words. He's very smart and intelligent, like top few % of the population at a guess and a very good friend of mine. But at times he does have some odd values.

He maybe well educated, but actually, he is not intelligent. He is more likely an intellectual & all folk that I know like that, are not very intelligent & certainly don't possess any common sense. If I was you, I'd leave him to his thoughts & save your sanity & breath!

[womble]

Apr 19, 2013 18:35:21 GMT jess said:

Apr 19, 2013 14:13:03 GMT womble said:

OK, lets try to drop the education angle, I only bought it up to try to show how intelligent he was. Probably a bad choice of words. He's very smart and intelligent, like top few % of the population at a guess and a very good friend of mine. But at times he does have some odd values.

He maybe well educated, but actually, he is not intelligent. He is more likely an intellectual & all folk that I know like that, are not very intelligent & certainly don't possess any common sense. If I was you, I'd leave him to his thoughts & save your sanity & breath!

Actually he is very intelligent and he's an engineer, or was, he's retired now. Not an intellectual type at all.
I'll admit he does have some strange views sometimes, but usually they are built on an understanding of the issues. He seems to understand the issues in this, but we can't get around the fact that he thinks it just people trying to get round the ban.

I think markm has hit it pretty squarely on the head.

[Raffles]

Just to add my twopennyworth, vaping will not be accepted generally for many years, if ever, by a lot of the population, particularly non-smokers or especially ex-smokers. Smokers have been villified for many years now and it's inevitable the impression will carry over to vaping by many... we're puffing away and blowing smoke/steam out of our gobs, and what's worse, we appear to be enjoying it.

Maybe I'm lucky in that I can go without vaping for many hours, and would therefore not attempt it in a location where I thought there may be a problem. For example, my youngest son will encourage me to vape in his house because he knows how good I feel about switching... but I wouldn't even dream of doing it in my eldest son's house, with the grandkids, as it will still give them the impression of smoking, which is the last thing I would want. Plus both sons used to smoke, and gave up some time ago without any help, and I would not want to encourage them into another costly addiction, even if safer.

To me, vaping is a cost saving hobby, which has replaced a filthy habit, and I'd be quite happy to just do it in the privacy of my own home, or, like smokers, outside. Just doesn't bother me because I can understand the impression it gives, especially the cig-a-likes.

[markm]

I do wonder sometimes if we are, as ex smokers, still carrying guilt around. Like the anti smoking brigade we
Have also been subjected to many years of propaganda, some overt and much more as subtle pressure..
I do worry that we need to free ourselves of that, now that we have emerged from the chrysalis as a new bread.
That could come over as verging on a call for militancy, far from it, both sides need to find the way forward together
Because like it or not the world has been changed by these devices.

Imagine an appeal on television, "save millions of lives from illness, disease and early deaths.......we don't want your money though, just your understanding and acceptance"


Why should that be so hard to get people to grasp?

[Banky]

Educated or not, no one has a right to push their values on to anyone else.
As far as your friend is concerned you are not going to win the argument
he has made his mind up.

I can see where you are coming from Womble, your friend unfortunlly likes
most have the same opinion. A lot think that most of us who vape do
so because of the ban of not smoking in public place's

And to me that's a pity, his ignorance.

[matt1988]

TBH I wouldn't be overly bothered if a ban on vaping in a public inclosed space was introduced. It will then say to the non-smokers/ex-smokers we aren't doing it to avoid the ban.

The questionnaire on the campaign section had this question. The results will be interesting.