Cross your fingers - might be publicity!

[foxy9212]

Mar 2, 2010 19:45:27 GMT kate said:

Aye, we'll have to make poteen juice to vape if they ban nicotine. Hope it doesn't make us go blind

Poitín or Poteen (IPA [ˈpˠotʲiːn], also potcheen) is a traditional Irish distilled, highly alcoholic beverage (60%-95% ABV).[1] Poitín was traditionally distilled in a small pot still and the term is a diminutive[2] of the Irish word pota, meaning "pot". Traditionally distilled from malted barley grain or potatoes, it is one of the strongest alcoholic beverages in the world, and for centuries was classified as illegal in Ireland.[3]...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poteen

Go Kate! I'm already practising!

Fox

[lolli]

It's ON guys!!!

Think of me tomorrow afternoon!!! Committed to the cause but ~S~C~A~R~E~D~ & then some!!! lolli

2 requests please - REPLIES NEEDED TONIGHT pleeeeeeeez!

Will post details of wavelength? & time as soon as I'm told hence request no. 1

If you listen - would really appreciate truthful constructive criticism (if I end up sounding like a gibbering idiot, better to hear it from friends!! )

In case the "twisted facts" re antifreeze come up, can anyone give answers re the following please - request no.2

a) e liquid contains nicotine, flavouring, glycerin (VG & PG)- correct???

b) glycerin is either vegetable or ........what???

c) antifreeze contains ........what??? (which is a COMPLETELY different product/chemical)

d) the glycerin in e cigs is the same as that used in asthma inhalers & other medical preparations - correct???

e) it is also used in "disco smoke machines" hence harmless -correct???

f) nicotine is to be found in tomatoes & potatoes - correct???

g) how many people ISH do we know have given up smoking because of e cigs??? Source of these statistics???

Mar 3, 2010 12:13:49 GMT Scylla said:

Lolli, if you want it checked over for typos, spelling and grammar, I can do that, and I should be able to pick out any factual probs that we could check with the (compared to me) experts here

I will PM you my email address.

scylla

Hi Scyla - yes please PM me - I've already sent it but would like to know if what I've written is correct Thanks Scylla

Will get back here tonight soon as I'm home again - Thanks all

[Scylla]

First of all, you've only been vaping a few weeks and the journalist must understand before the mike is switched on that you don't know all the Ins and Outs, especially the scientific stuff.

Mar 3, 2010 17:15:29 GMT lolli said:

If you listen - would really appreciate truthful constructive criticism (if I end up sounding like a gibbering idiot, better to hear it from friends!!

That's one reason why he needs to know where you're coming from before you start. You'll only sound like a gibbering idiot if he takes you into areas that don't come from your heart.

In case the twisted facts re antifreeze come up, can anyone give answers re the following please - request no.2



a) e liquid contains nicotine, flavouring, glycerin (VG & PG)- correct???

The base liquid to which flavourings and nicotine are added is either Propylene Glycol (PG) or Vegetable Glycerine (VG). PG and VG are what create the vapour when heated.

b) glycerin is either vegetable or ........what???

See previous answer.

c) antifreeze contains ........what??? (which is a COMPLETELY different product/chemical)

Antifreeze contains PG...

d) the glycerin in e cigs is the same as that used in asthma inhalers & other medical preparations - correct???

e) it is also used in "disco smoke machines" hence harmless -correct???

No, it's the PG that's in asthma inhalers. smoke machines, etc.

f) nicotine is to be found in tomatoes & potatoes - correct???

g) how many people ISH do we know have given up smoking because of e cigs??? Source of these statistics???


More importantly than where nicotine is found (IMO) is the fact that e-cigs do NOT contain 4000-ish noxious chemicals that are in tobacco smoke.

We know hundreds of people, at least, who have quit smoking cigarettes with e-cigs, we have met them through online forums, send him to ECF I don't think that statistics exist.

However, I believe we are not supposed to be promoting e-cigs as a smoking cessation product, more as a recreational pastime ??? I personally am not comfortable with that approach because it isn't accurate, but I can see why it is felt necessary... I think.

The most important thing, IMO, is that you heed my first sentence.

Let's preview and see what a pig's ear I've made of this

You could say that you've met people whose smoker's cough has ceased to keep them awake at night within a few days of switching to vaping. That is true, it applies to me. I am concerned that you'll get in a right muddle if you stray into the scientific stuff - because I know I would!!!


KEEP IT SIMPLE


More contributions gratefully received.



scylla

[foxy9212]

I picked this up from a Facebook link : www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8614291 In other words, rats inhaled nicotine in large concentration and came to no harm.

My bottle of Bluecol Antifreeeze contains ETHYLENE GLYCOL (not propylene).

Propylene Glycol is used in dozens of different household and cosmetic items. It is both a humectant and a 'carrier' for creams and lotions both for medical and cosmetic use. Glycol is found in toothpastes and mouthwashes. Glycerin is commonly used as an ingredient in the treatment of halitosis. As a humectant it is also used in asthmatic nebulizers and, curiously, PG is also used to stop tobacco from drying out.

Loll? You're a brave lady and will be just fine!

Fox

[Scylla]

Thanks, Foxy

See what I mean about getting involved in the scientific stuff, Lolli?

scylla x

[lolli]

Scylla & Foxy - I really appreciate your posts/ info/input - thank you so much

Don't worry Scylla, I'll be sure to stress how new to it all I am (but it's good to have some facts that are correct behind me :-) )

We record tomorrow but apparently it won't go out for a couple of weeks, as the gov dept will be asked to put their view forward also - in the interests of fairness.

I'm told we may not know until 24 hrs before when it will be.

[kate]

Wow Lollipop, you're a star, thanks for doing this


a) e liquid contains nicotine, flavouring, glycerin (VG & PG)- correct???
Yep and occasionally a little alcohol.


b) glycerin is either vegetable or ........what???
.... something else but it doesn't matter if we use vegetable sources or not, it's pretty pure by the time it's food grade.


c) antifreeze contains ........what??? (which is a COMPLETELY different product/chemical)
Diethylene glycol was found at approximately 1% in one cartridge out of 16 tested by the FDA, that's toxic and found in antifreeze that can cause harm.
Propylene glycol is used in antifreeze too but the non toxic, safe stuff.


d) the glycerin in e cigs is the same as that used in asthma inhalers & other medical preparations - correct???
Propylene glycol in inhalers.


e) it is also used in "disco smoke machines" hence harmless -correct???
Propylene glycol again.


f) nicotine is to be found in tomatoes & potatoes - correct???
Yea and some other stuff, it's a natural plant chemical that protects them from bugs and that's why it can be concentrated and used as insecticide.


g) how many people ISH do we know have given up smoking because of e cigs??? Source of these statistics???
There's no way to know but it must be millions now. Our petition has 3600 signatures in under six weeks, mostly UK folk and only the ones who we've been able to contact.

[lolli]

Thanks Kate :-) :-) :-)
Will get back with updates.

[Lilac]

Way to go, Lolli....go for it girl

[lolli]

Aww Lilac - thanks but undeserved I fear! - would I have got into this if I knew what it was gonna involve ???

Where DO you find your smilies fab

[Lilac]

I use Smileypad, finally got it to (mostly) work in here...you load your smileys into it then just drag n drop them into a post..

think that one came from incredimail originally...

[Chrissie]

Thinking of you today (((Lolli))) & hoping it all goes really well

[Chrissie]

A message from Lolli that she has asked me to C&P here. Really sorry that I'm not going to be able to help this evening myself. Not been feeling at all well for the last couple of days & especially feel worse on an evening.

OMG OMG - Whew!! Gasp!!

Harry's just left - lovely guy - I'm shaking like a leaf TRULY ( you'll have to really excuse my grammar, spelling & general rambling - am under stress here & then some!!!)

Did it go well? He says it did. I think not. I didn't feel calm & collected & sure I missed bits. Stumbled on my words a few times too :-(

It was all over in a flash! Only a few minutes.

IT WILL DEF GO OUT in next 2 wks - could be sooner - he'll let me know. Soon as I'm told I'll e mail & post the day!

BUT -apparently they'll broadcast the first stuff I said about how they (e cigs) work. The rest of what I said will go out in little different bits during that day??? - & THEN on same day I have to go to the studio for LIVE INTERVIEW !!!

I am seriously "in a state" here!

The info you need is:

BBC SOLENT (Harry Crawford - reporter) 96.1 FM / 103.8 FM (bbc.co.uk/dorset bbc.co.uk/hampshire)

If you're out of my area I hope you'll find it live online ???

You guys know I'm NOT in my comfort zone with technology (computer illiterate!) & don't have the resources to print off reams of stuff, so bearing that in mind, I am gonna need serious help SOON, in simple easy terms, with some of the following -

I will be asked about the gov reasons for ban & why I think these are invalid ???

I need to know which docs/scientists/knowledgeable peeps support e cigs ???

I need some simple stuff to defend myself with ??? - & anything else you think I might need !!!

IF I'M DOING THIS I WANNA DO IT TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY - however limited.

Anyway , today I truly did my best. Was it good enough - I'm really not sure . Feel I could've done better. Live interview lies ahead - may only have 24 hrs notice - so need to be prepared & think positively!

I WILL SO ------ DO THIS ! DETERMINED but SCARED !

[foxy9212]

The Government wishes to ban the sale and distribution of all unlicensed nicotine products. The reason appears to be that no tests have been carried out to prove they are harmless. They have taken a lead, it seems, from the FDA in the USA (See Kate's post about the minute traces of chemicals found in a tiny sample from the cartridges from just two manufacturers they chose - the two companies that were, coincidentally, in the process of suing them for the release of imports being held at the point of entry into the US).

The time constraint does not allow for the manufacturers/importers/retailers to take any action in order to ensure the products for which they are responsible can obtain a licence. This is a prohibitively expensive and lengthy process unaffordable for the majority of small suppliers. The tests carried out on vendors' stocks that confirmed their purity are, apparently, not to be taken into consideration. For instance, one vendor had samples tested by Trading Standards who found them to be A1.

Trading Standards have the power to take samples and test them at any time, therefore, the laws are already in place to protect the public from the unscrupulous.

The Government alleges that eliquid containing nicotine is highly toxic. Nicotine is highly toxic in its raw form; the solution vapers handle is highly diluted and according to general Health & Safety regulations, should be supplied in safety containers in the same way as any other toxic substance available for household use in general. Again, Trading Standards have the power to ensure all suppliers comply with the necessarily regulations.

The Government proposes that liquid nicotine used in e-cigarettes should be reclassified as 'medicinal' rather than 'recreational' and this is seen by most vapers as a nonsense. E-cigarettes are no less recreational than tobacco cigarettes and are certainly not medicine, in that they cure nothing as vaping is not an illness.

There are a few 'experts' who've carried out tests on rats given very strong doses of raw nicotine for five days per week, over a two year period. The nicotine was inhaled constantly and at the conclusion of the tests, no harm had come to any of the animals. ie/no cancerous tumors or other common smoking related diseases. Not a smoker's squeak between em it would seem.

I'm sure Kate can furnish you with some 'names' as she's pretty much au fait with the subject. I know there are some experts who are in favour of 'harm reduction' if not exactly on the side of the e-cigarette.

To date much of the information I've read concerns the manufacturers and vendors versus the MHRA - we mere consumers have been totally overlooked. It's as though what we think matters not one iota. That those of us who've completely left the burning, noxious tobacco behind, will be forced back to what we KNOW is deadly to us is seemingly unimportant; all that we will be offered is a useless Quit Kit and the same old expensive NRT products that we've tried in all their different forms but to no avail.

Good Luck Lollipop, just stick up for yourself and the rest of we vapers who have so much to lose and for whom no consideration has been given at all.

Fox

[kate]

Here are some doctors and harm reduction experts who have supported us:

Dr Rodu: www.tobaccoharmreduction.org/roducv.pdf and rodutobaccotruth.blogspot.com/

Dr Baron: www.primarycaring.com/#meet

Dr Laugesen: www.healthnz.co.nz/coynews.htm

Dr Siegel: tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/

Paul Bergen: smokles.wordpress.com/

Dr Phillips: www.tobaccoharmreduction.org/faq/ecigs.htm

Dr Hajek (UK) said something supportive somewhere but I haven't been able to properly check him out: www.wolfson.qmul.ac.uk/psychology/staff/team/peter_hajek.html

Dr Paine (UK): www.tobaccohorizons.com/

Dr Nitzkin:

David Sweanor

Chris Snowdon (UK) not a health professional but very aware of political undercurrents and good at analysis: velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.com/



www.tobaccoharmreduction.org/interviews.htm

Those are the only ones I can think of at the moment, I hope that helps.