Updates on Plenary

[kibbster]

I'll be arranging to go and meet my local MP and take my E-cigs with me.
He's a Tory so in theory should be pro E-cigs.

But...
He's just had a few months off for cancer treatment, I don't know what sort or where but I'll have to tread very carefully with safer than smoking and cancer stuff.

[OneDay]

Oct 9, 2013 0:10:25 GMT kibbster said:

Oct 9, 2013 0:06:48 GMT OneDay said:

:)It's interesting to see from the individual votes that almost without exception the politicians voted along party lines . That makes me wonder whether our lobbying and pressure actually had any impact at all

Before the campaign they were all against us.
The Lib Dems and Tories are now on our side.
Labour there's no ******* hope for I'm afraid, but we'll still bug the crap out of labour MPs but mainly just for pleasure

 

I'm up for that

[Jaguar7777]

Oct 9, 2013 0:08:50 GMT kibbster said:

Oct 8, 2013 23:57:44 GMT Jaguar7777 said:

The UK government will probably opt out of any EU legislation as it usually does. In it's own time it will make a decision based on what it thinks is right for the people of the United Kingdom.

Yeah ..... right.


I'm not celebrating.


Jag. (The hammer will fall ..... eventually.)

It's closer to travel to to protest
And we have a direct line to the government and we've shown MPs will listen to us.
We can even go and visit our MPs in their surgeries.

Finally it's easier to launch legal action as every single time someone has tried to make E-cigs medicines and it's been challenged, the challenge wins.
that includes in the EU yesterday.

I don't rate the government's chances tbh

I hope you are right, I really do.

But, these are Politicians we are talking about. If you study history when push comes to shove they are the ones doing all the shoving.

No matter what they say or what they promise, I trust them not.

Jag. (As previously stated, likes the idea of a democracy but has yet to have seen one.)

[kibbster]

Some politicians yesterday were good to their word though and without them we'd be looking at the MHRAs lubed glove now.
I've got to be honest I've been engaged by the MEPs that took the time to listen and then spearhead the fight.

Labour have destroyed their chances of me ever voting for them and it's not just about E-cigs.
They've shown utter disdain for their electorate and have refused to listen to us just churned out the same old template letter written by McKraven and her cronies the BMA and MHRA.

If there's on thing I have made it my mission in life it's to irritate them till they speak to me, just for me to tell them I'm never going to vote for them anyway.

Labour are the absolute worst that any political party can offer, forcing legislation on people it cares nothing about and then trying every dirty trick to keep forcing things their way even when the tide turns against them.

They are a bunch of arrogant, worthless scumbags I never want running our country again!

[kibbster]

Another great post from Katherine

Hi, all,

Just taking a short break from the media furore to jump on in here and say a few words:

Firstly, WELL DONE to everyone in this vibrant and growing community! We have won a significant victory today, and should take a moment to recognise that, and enjoy it!

Secondly, there are some parts of the amendment that went through that remain as unacceptable as meds reclassification would have been - and that includes the ridiculous limit of 30mg/ml. This is simply not acceptable, and continues to fail on the legal principle of proportionality (and quite possibly, also on non-discrimination). Here in the UK, we have had a limit of 7.2% (72mg/ml) for retail sales direct to consumers for years (since 1972, actually! Wink) and that limit has not seen UK citizens dropping dead in the streets, overcome by their 'too strong' vaping! I shall need to see extraordinarily robust evidence of actual harms having been caused by higher strength liquids before I would be prepared to accept such an arbitrary, pointless and disproportionate limitation being placed on our eliquids.

The DIYers may only be a niche market, but their rights MUST be protected, as is the case for the rest of the vapers.

There are other problems too. I spoke with the Advertising Standards Agency again today, following on from our meeting last week, and I have to say that I am delighted that such a competent agency is dealing with sector-specific guidelines for these products. The advertising restrictions proposed in the amendment which went through are DISproportionate, unhelpful and counter-productive. Smokers MUST be told the truth about their options, and that includes sensible, honest advertising of these products.

There are other bits which will need to be ironed out, but the next few weeks is our opportunity to get these things sorted. If nothing else, today's vote has demonstrated one thing abundantly clearly: when it comes right down to it, the corruption and dodgy lobbying does NOT stop the EU institutions doing the right thing. The threat of reclassification as a medicine, with the concomitant removal of all our vaping products and the annihilation of this burgeoning industry, is now completely off the table.

Happy and long-lived vaping, my friends. Smiling

Cheers,

Katherine

[barrynorton]

Oct 8, 2013 23:57:44 GMT Jaguar7777 said:

The UK government will probably opt out of any EU legislation as it usually does.

We don't and can't. A directive is an obligation. Note that all this bluster about Human Right Act is not about the European Parliament but the Council of Europe, a completely different body and system.

[barrynorton]

Oct 9, 2013 1:11:00 GMT kibbster said:

Secondly, there are some parts of the amendment that went through that remain as unacceptable as meds reclassification would have been - and that includes the ridiculous limit of 30mg/ml. This is simply not acceptable, and continues to fail on the legal principle of proportionality (and quite possibly, also on non-discrimination). Here in the UK, we have had a limit of 7.2% (72mg/ml) for retail sales direct to consumers for years (since 1972, actually! Wink) 

That's a good point. Does anyone know in which act this was enacted, and what the thinking was behind the 7.2% limit?

[Deleted]

I actually think we have a lot to thank the french vapers for protesting outside the parliament the day before the vote....(and anyone else who protested)...

People power (and I don't like the french)...but kibbster you're so right about labour!!!

[kibbster]

Oct 9, 2013 6:59:06 GMT barrynorton said:

Oct 9, 2013 1:11:00 GMT kibbster said:

Secondly, there are some parts of the amendment that went through that remain as unacceptable as meds reclassification would have been - and that includes the ridiculous limit of 30mg/ml. This is simply not acceptable, and continues to fail on the legal principle of proportionality (and quite possibly, also on non-discrimination). Here in the UK, we have had a limit of 7.2% (72mg/ml) for retail sales direct to consumers for years (since 1972, actually! Wink) 

That's a good point. Does anyone know in which act this was enacted, and what the thinking was behind the 7.2% limit?

No idea.
I always assumed they considered anything above this amount to be too dangerous to take risks with, all policy needs a bit of a safety margin I guess. 

[Sassy]

My local MP is Labour

I've tweeted this morning asking his stance on it, I await his reply!

[barrynorton]

Interesting end to the article in The Telegraph (not to teach my grandmother to suck eggs, but if you want to know what the Conservative party are planning, look at what they tell the Torygraph):

E-cigarettes consist of a battery, a cartridge containing nicotine, a solution of propylene glycol or glycerine mixed with water, and an atomiser to turn the solution into a vapour.
Their growing popularity led the commission to propose classing them as a medicine alongside nicotine patches and other “smoking cessation” products.

Current plans by Britain’s Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) to class e-cigarettes as medicinal products could now be overturned by the EU decision.
A Department of Health spokesman said: “We are disappointed with the decision to reject the proposal to regulate nicotine-containing products, including e-cigarettes, as medicines,” said a department of health spokesman.

“We believe these products need to be regulated as medicines and will continue to make this point during further negotiations.”

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10364709/EU-bans-packets-of-10-and-menthol-cigarettes.html

[kibbster]

Oct 9, 2013 7:57:47 GMT Sassy said:

My local MP is Labour

I've tweeted this morning asking his stance on it, I await his reply!

Good luck!

[Jaguar7777]

Oct 9, 2013 6:56:55 GMT barrynorton said:

Oct 8, 2013 23:57:44 GMT Jaguar7777 said:

The UK government will probably opt out of any EU legislation as it usually does.

We don't and can't. A directive is an obligation. Note that all this bluster about Human Right Act is not about the European Parliament but the Council of Europe, a completely different body and system.

I stand corrected.


On the other hand, they might start squirming, then offer us a referendum on membership of the EU.


I still don't trust them, and I doubt I ever will.


Jag. (I wish they'd quit kissing peoples babies .... yeuk!)

[Deleted]

Hey guys paranoia is what i get paid for LOL...careful now guys

[barrynorton]

What people also generally don't realise about EU directives is that the UK often pushes them and then over-implements them. The Daily Mail don't tell you that, they'd prefer you to believe it's foreigners telling us which bananas we can sell.

Take a look at farming, as one example, it's often us trying to bring the Continent into line with our practices (or plans for more toughly regulated practice).

It fits together very neatly with the common market, when you really examine it. We believe that sow pens need to be banned but if we do that we lose our competitiveness, so we try to make everyone do it.


I hate to sound preachy, but unless you understand our relationship with the EU you stand to over-estimate the (small) victory we just won.


Sorry to keep editing/extending this, but here's my point: one stratagem in going back, now, to our national government is to say: most of us serious vapers currently get our equipment directly from China, but suffer poor quality/testing, poor service and slow postage. In a stable, cautiously-regulated European market (i.e., which does not require medical authorisation) a healthy mature trade will quickly establish itself and consequently British people will buy their equipment from the Continent. Even if you try to prevent this, other European countries in this developing market will challenge you on the basis of free trade. It is your responsibility to British industry not to legislate beyond the European agreement.