Currently an item on the Beeb News - Diacetyl :(

[tomvaper]

Although some suppliers may state that their concentrates/pre mixed juices are diacetyl free they may contain the alternatives Acetoin, Acetyl, Propionyl, 2-3 Hexanedione, 2-3 Heptanedione, or Diacetyl Trimer which are also considered potentially harmful when vaped over long periods of time.

Here's a snippet of info from another vape forum :

"Capella's does not list anything other than Diacetyl-Free on their site; however, they are testing their flavors, working on a v2 of their Vanilla Custard and working on 7 others that are free of all three chemicals including one tobacco flavor. I've been speaking with Tom over the past few weeks and they are getting close to release, so it should be anytime now."

Good news for custard lovers like me

[djs]

Aug 31, 2014 9:22:17 GMT blakey said:

What worries me is that the vaping community has known about diacetyl for quite some time and most e-juice producers had eliminated the ingredients that could contain it.
A company the size of VIP should've been well aware and dealt with this months ago.
No-one can really argue that some form of regulation is going to be needed to make sure that juice makers are making safe products.
Clearly even the bigger boys in the vaping game can't really be trusted completely to regulate themselves

THIS (above) +1.

VIP must have known about diacetyl and ECITA should have made it a no.1 priority to get solid assurances.

Both should hang their heads in shame.

However, the blame lies mostly with VIP and releasing statements they only found out a week ago and decided to withdraw not recall the products shows how completely untrustworthy some of these companies are.

This is very bad news and plays straight into the hands of the enemy.

[tomvaper]

I'm in the process of getting together a few of my custard samples and posting them to a few members on here and it now makes me wonder if i should include a disclaimer about what might be in my mix.
I use capella flavourings and although they state they are diacetyl free they probably contain any of the other ingredients i stated above.

Thing is many custard lovers (if they are members of any popular vape forums) couldn't've missed the posts relating to diacetyl/Acetyl, Propionyl in their juice and its kinda a feeling that either you carry on or stop vaping these juices altogether.
I'm one that understands the ripple of concern and i know Todd has carried on vaping custards but a lot of vapers won't until a alternative safe buttery substitute is found.
I just wonder how many custard vapers actually knew about these concerns?

[vinny41]

Aug 31, 2014 8:49:45 GMT seniorphil said:

Cheers robby. We have producer from BBC Inside and Out coming to the next London meet. She wants to meet some home juice mixers. I shall watch her like a hawk.

Have you established what is BBC interest I suspect it will be sometime along the lines that currently no regulations in place that prevents anyone that is making their own juice from selling online as it was the inside out program that did the report listed by the op

[Perpetua]

Aug 31, 2014 10:31:54 GMT tomvaper said:

I just wonder how many custard vapers actually knew about these concerns?

It's been a topic debated much in the past  . . . The Perfumer's Apprentice clearly list which of their flavours contain Acetoin & Acetyl, Propionyl and other related information.

shop.perfumersapprentice.com/t-FlavorWorkshopCustard.aspx

Personally, I'll continue to use them as we are talking about minute quantities, which are even more miniscule when diluted in a mix. It's useful to have the alternative, that Capella are offering with their V2 versions for anyone who does have concerns - as long as they bear in mind, that Custard flavours will not taste as creamy without those elements.

Chefs have had the V2's in for a while now . . . .

www.chefsvapour.co.uk/-Capella_Version_2/cat1901059_2519166.aspx

* I do not include the use of Diacetyl being acceptable in a flavouring. *

[seniorphil]

Aug 31, 2014 11:29:20 GMT vinny41 said:

Aug 31, 2014 8:49:45 GMT seniorphil said:

Cheers robby. We have producer from BBC Inside and Out coming to the next London meet. She wants to meet some home juice mixers. I shall watch her like a hawk.

Have you established what is BBC interest I suspect it will be sometime along the lines that currently no regulations in place that prevents anyone that is making their own juice from selling online as it was the inside out program that did the report listed by the op

She has just said that she has read a lot on line about home juice making and looked at vendors who sell the ingredients, but she would like to talk face to face with some mixers.
I will get a chance to meet her before I introduce her to others, if she seems the slightest suspicious she won't get in. We have a private room booked, so we have the option of booting her ass out.

[MarkS]

Aug 31, 2014 9:37:18 GMT tomvaper said:

Although some suppliers may state that their concentrates/pre mixed juices are diacetyl free they may contain the alternatives Acetoin, Acetyl, Propionyl, 2-3 Hexanedione, 2-3 Heptanedione, or Diacetyl Trimer which are also considered potentially harmful when vaped over long periods of time.

Exactly Tom also Dr Farsalinos recent study found that 69% of the liquids they tested contained diacetyl and some of those were plain tobacco and plain fruit flavours. Not just dessert, creamy or custardy flavourings.

The thing is no one knows if this is harmful or not. The only thing we have to go on are the 'popcorn lung' cases.

These guys where inhaling huge amounts of diacetyl daily over decades. No one has done any kind of studies as to what concentration of diacetyl when inhaled does it become harmful.

Personally until I know more I won't worry about it myself but its up to each and everyone of us to decide that for ourselves.

If it does concern anyone then I'd suggest they also rethink dripping, sub ohming and high watts/volts vaping as the higher the temperature the more likely it is that Acetoin & Acetyl will produce diacetyl.

[tomvaper]

Amen mark, and as far as I'm concerned it certainly beats smoking cigarettes

[Karma]

I don't worry about it. I still believe that vaping has to be much safer than smoking. Let's face it, life is dangerous, none of us gets out alive

[sleedale]

If the case of one person consuming 2 bags of microwaves popcorn every day for 10 years, contracting the disease through inhaling the vapours from the popcorn, I imagine the very, very tiny amount that might be in some custard flavours (and you can get them that are diacetyl free) would pose a minuscule risk. But I do wonder if they are going to point out to consumers of microwave popcorn the dangers involved? I doubt it!

[VE Jason]

It really is a complicated issue.

As soon as one suspect compound is eradicated another one pops up - let's face facts - labs only test for the things they are told to test for, not the things we don't even know about yet.

You can create a pretty pure e-liquid (or so you think) then add it to a bottle and a reaction between one of the flavourings and the plastic of the bottle can create another undesirable chemical.

By the time we've finished eradicating everything we will be left with flavourless liquid, which funnily enough is exactly what the authorities want

[happyloman]

Aug 31, 2014 12:11:24 GMT MarkS said:

Aug 31, 2014 9:37:18 GMT tomvaper said:

 The only thing we have to go on are the 'popcorn lung' cases.

These guys where inhaling huge amounts of diacetyl daily over decades. 

Not sure about the "decades" MarkS as the Reddit article, on page one, says the employees were all "young" so its possible they werent working there for that long. 

Ive been looking around the net most of today and its seems this is something known for about 4 or 5 years, yet there are still people selling it. The market needs regulation, it shouldnt be down to the media to drum up scare stories.

[igual]

Learned about diactyl early on did the reaserch and took the opinion that the micro amounts we would be exposing ourselves to is miniscule compared to the atmospheres innfood production factories ( have been inside a few from sweet factories to abattoirs)
The airbirn chemicals in places like those are insane concentrations.
If there was a total!y risk free version of course I'd use it but nothing is risk free its life and there will alwaysbe risks.
One way to help with creamyness is vanillin but again what do we really know about any of the chemicals the amines etc.
The process of testing every one ffor vapeing is an almost impossible task as they react differently with different things at different concentrations.
I am happy to vape as I KNOW 100% its better than stinkies. And that is the most important issue .

[Deleted]

I'm going to say something which may or may not be accepted .

If there is a chemical in ecigs which if inhaled is shown to be harmful , and if this has been known or discussed for a while ie some eliquid vendors state no diacetyl and they've done this for a reason .
Then I as someone who had moved to vaping because I don't want

A) the harmful effects from ciggies

b) an under the belief that eliquids are as ' harmless as say a nicotine inhaler ' ie threads which compare the ingredients of a nicotine inhaler compared to an eliquid.

I as a consumer and someone who's now concerned about my health Expect such findings to be made public and more controls to be put in place.

I like ecigs because they have stopped me from smoking . Smoking is deadly . But I don't want to be inhaling something dodgy , even if compared to ciggies it's '' X times less harmful'.

[VE Jason]

Aug 31, 2014 19:51:32 GMT @purple1234 said:

I'm going to say something which may or may not be accepted .

If there is a chemical in ecigs which if inhaled is shown to be harmful , and if this has been known or discussed for a while ie some eliquid vendors state no diacetyl and they've done this for a reason .
Then I as someone who had moved to vaping because I don't want

A) the harmful effects from ciggies

b) an under the belief that eliquids are as ' harmless as say a nicotine inhaler ' ie threads which compare the ingredients of a nicotine inhaler compared to an eliquid.

I as a consumer and someone who's now concerned about my health Expect such findings to be made public and more controls to be put in place.

I like ecigs because they have stopped me from smoking . Smoking is deadly . But I don't want to be inhaling something dodgy , even if compared to ciggies it's '' X times less harmful'.

Then to be as safe as possible @purple1234 you must vape unflavoured liquid.

Because, like it or not, food flavourings of any type - no matter what they are suspended in (oil, water, PG, alcohol) have not been proven safe to inhale, whether they are natural or synthetically produced.

The bigger problem is what reacts with what to cause what.

Like I said - it's a complex issue.

Let's just hope, as adults, we are allowed to make our own decisions based on the facts available