batteries

[Ripshod]

Apr 27, 2015 8:25:49 GMT striker42 said:

Another example of how to get into trouble Ripshod ? 

You got that right striker42
As I said:

Apr 22, 2015 14:28:31 GMT Ripshod said:

Be careful when googling. There's a lot of bad results turning up - 'apparently good' information from bad vendors.

That first battery really is a shocker though. 6 Amps!!  

ETA: What really is shocking is the number of unprotected ICR batteries being peddled out there. That ain't gonna end well

[spaced]

Apr 26, 2015 21:06:07 GMT dafellon said:

I'll be getting in on this; Top Bin 18650's

$56 including shipping for 4 batteries !!! Thats £36 you can get 4 LG HE2 or Samsung INR 25R's for far less than that locally.

Apr 22, 2015 at 3:28pm Ripshod said:
Be careful when googling. There's a lot of bad results turning up - 'apparently good' information from bad vendors.

And bad information from apparently "Good" reviewers. Since the video with that accompanies the above Indiegogo campaign, is by Pegasus Vapor Academy. He has far over complicated a persons need to buy battery types.

[dafellon]

Apr 27, 2015 7:56:34 GMT Ripshod said:

Seriously??

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make?

First (LGDBM11865) - 6Amps  Is this just a typo? The MAH rating is what is of interest for this battery. However, if this is true, please could you share a link to the testing or spec sheet that produced (I assume you mean max continuous) 6A, much appreciated. <<<<<<<<<<<Unprotected ICR!! Why is this relevant? What do you mean by unprotected?
Second (Samsung INR18650-30Q) - 15Amps
Third (LGDBHE41865) - 20Amps "<<<<<<<<<<<Unprotected ICR!!"
Fourth - (LGDAHD21865) - 20Amps Data for "20Amps" also please. <<<<<<<<<<<Unprotected ICR!!
Fifth - (LGDAHB61865) - NOT RECOGNISED!! By who?

The diamond in the rough here is the LG HE4. At 20Amps and being safer chemistry this is the only one of the five I'd recommend anyone uses. The others are good for torches though None of these batteries are purpose made for vaping, or torches? The HE4 is in fact my go to battery, I personally feel it is a good all rounder but just out of interest, why is it you would "only" recommend this and not any other, what exactly would you recommend it for? I'm guessing you only vape .3 ohm and lower on a mechanical mod?

Vape safe!!


The whole survey is sponsored (65%-ish) by batterybro. com employees. Who ironically claim to stock the Sony VTC5. Avoid like a rash!!!!
Lots of vendors, e.g. P-Vaper have a listing for the 'Sony VTC5' on their website "Out of stock", are they all to be avoided??? Please elaborate on your experience with Battery Bro. If you are simply basing their credibility on having 'Sony VTC5' 'in stock', you may want to check their listing again! They also have a link on that listing to a blog post relating to the same battery.

[dafellon]

Apr 27, 2015 13:48:53 GMT spaced said:

Apr 26, 2015 21:06:07 GMT dafellon said:

I'll be getting in on this; Top Bin 18650's

$56 including shipping for 4 batteries !!! Thats £36 you can get 4 LG HE2 or Samsung INR 25R's for far less than that locally.


Not local to me unfortunately. I completely agree that they are overpriced but I genuinely believe battery quality is going to be better than from most vendors. I want them DeWalt batteries not Dell haha.

[Ripshod]

dafellon, I'll take screenies from the database at work next time I'm in the workshop.

I do find your remark regarding the VTC5, and me simply basing credibility on that fact that they are showing as 'in stock' interesting. Anyone showing VTC5s in stock, no matter who they are should be regarded with a massive spoonful of doubt.

Anyone can become victim to fake batteries, as proved recently by one of our favourite vendors.

ETA: In the meantime you can entertain yourself here: dampfakkus.de/
A pretty large DBase, but check out the test results - shows the difference between specs and real-life.

[Deleted]

You can take a horse to the water but you can't make it drink Ripshod. At this moment in time I would avoid buying a VTC 5 from anywhere. I'm sure in the last few weeks thatguy purchased one from a B&M store which was alledgedly the real deal and alas it turned out to be a fake. On another note Ripshod, did you ever purchase and test the awt 2500mah 35a 18650's ? I bought a pair and they have performed well and no issues.

[dafellon]

Apr 27, 2015 22:29:20 GMT Ripshod said:

I do find your remark regarding the VTC5, and me simply basing credibility on that fact that they are showing as 'in stock' interesting. Anyone showing VTC5s in stock, no matter who they are should be regarded with a massive spoonful of doubt.


ETA: In the meantime you can entertain yourself here: dampfakkus.de/
A pretty large DBase, but check out the test results - shows the difference between specs and real-life.

My point was that battery bro do not state that they have this battery in stock. Battery Bro 'VTC5' listing and this would strongly suggest they have not supplied it since at least December; Blog post

I was also saying P-Vaper DO NOT have them in stock but like a lot of vendors still have a listing for them.


Dampfakkus is a valuable resource, I agree. Not sure why you pointed this out? FYI fourth battery listed had these stats on dampfakkus;

Marke, Bezeichnung / Link zu Details, Form Kap. lt. Hersteller, Real Kap. (2A bis 3V), Max A, Chemie, Protected, Top, Maße in mm, Bild, Kurven.
LG ICR18650HD2, 18650, 2000mAh, 1897mAh, 25.0, IMR, Nein, Flat, 18.5*65.2, 2A 3A 5A

States 25A Max, as listed, as suspected. They have a graph for it being tested at 20A, nowhere does it state this was due to it being the max continuous discharge?

TFTL .

[Ripshod]

Apr 28, 2015 8:59:21 GMT dafellon said:

My point was that battery bro do not state that they have this battery in stock. Battery Bro 'VTC5' listing and this would strongly suggest they have not supplied it since at least December

Without actually placing an order, or signing up with Battery Bro a buyer wouldn't know. Honey trap?

Dampfakkus is a valuable resource, I agree. Not sure why you pointed this out? FYI fourth battery listed had these stats on dampfakkus;

Marke, Bezeichnung / Link zu Details, Form Kap. lt. Hersteller, Real Kap. (2A bis 3V), Max A, Chemie, Protected, Top, Maße in mm, Bild, Kurven.
LG ICR18650HD2, 18650, 2000mAh, 1897mAh, 25.0, IMR, Nein, Flat, 18.5*65.2, 2A 3A 5A

States 25A Max, as listed, as suspected. They have a graph for it being tested at 20A, nowhere does it state this was due to it being the max continuous discharge?

Without trawling their results I can say with surety that when tested the ICR18650HD2  proves itself unsuitable for vaping because of it's high IR (internal resistance). The voltage sag when used at 20Amps is borderline - as in any higher amps and a mod would refuse to fire with the 'weak battery', or 'power short' warning. The battery is indeed rated at 25Amps, but it takes more than a high rating to make a battery suitable.

You're raising great points here dafellon, and we're into the stuff that normally doesn't get discussed here but does need to be considered.

My personal bias against this battery is that it's an ICR. Even a 'protected' ICR battery can blow as any electronics can go wrong, even a protection circuit.

[VapingBad]

dafellon I would agree with all the points Ripshod raised and like to address 2 points you raised:

"The MAH rating is what is of interest for this battery"
I would say this is the least important, you need to ensure that the battery is capable for the application and in e-cigs the maximum continuous discharge rate and safety should be addressed first.

"Unprotected ICR!! Why is this relevant? What do you mean by unprotected?"
ICR is the chemical type (more family) of the battery (anode chemistry), it is a cheap type of battery optimised for capacity and not safety or output current, Panasonic often have a graphic showing this on their data-sheets. But more importantly for us if they go into thermal runaway they are far more violent than IMR/safer chemistry and have a point of no return where the chemical reaction that can cause flaming etc will continue even if the condition which started it is rectified. I would only use ICR in quality low power regulated devices < 15 W, I have some in power banks but never use them for vaping.

From a Panasonic NCR18650B data-sheet.  IMR in the top-left (safest), Cobalt based (ICR) and Nickel based (NCR/NNP) along the bottom (least safe)


Unprotected simply means the is not protection module on the battery, these can fail or get damaged by static so should never rely on only these to ensure your safety.


If you want to learn more there are lots of links at the bottom of the last page of the guide in my footer.

[Bob]

Apr 28, 2015 5:57:54 GMT striker42 said:

You can take a horse to the water but you can't make it drink Ripshod. At this moment in time I would avoid buying a VTC 5 from anywhere. I'm sure in the last few weeks thatguy purchased one from a B&M store which was alledgedly the real deal and alas it turned out to be a fake. On another note Ripshod, did you ever purchase and test the awt 2500mah 35a 18650's ? I bought a pair and they have performed well and no issues.

Those AWT ones are rated on lygte-info but that DB is 3 years old now -  I've just ordered their latest 2600 35A - would be interested if anyone has tested them

[Ripshod]

Apr 28, 2015 5:57:54 GMT striker42 said:

Ripshod, did you ever purchase and test the awt 2500mah 35a 18650's ?

I do have 2 of the 2500s in the general rotation striker42, to bed them in. Can't find the original thread but I'm sure it referenced these 2500s, not the 2600s. I could be wrong(?), I've not seen a release.

Just using them they do seem to be very capable batteries tbh, and I didn't expect to be saying that


ETA: Retracting that statement. Just run a quick resistance test and one measured at 0.016 Ohms - doesn't show any promise for more than 22-25 Amps. The other measures 0.019 Ohms, so a consistency problem as well. Both are from the same place and have the same Lot number. I know that's no guarantee they'd have the same specs, but the difference is rather large in my eye.

[dafellon]

Apr 28, 2015 9:16:01 GMT Ripshod said:

Without actually placing an order, or signing up with Battery Bro a buyer wouldn't know. Honey trap?
I simply read the description without signing up or contacting them to deduce that they do not have nor can they obtain 'VTC5's' but I accept you disagree.


Without trawling their results I can say with surety that when tested the ICR18650HD2  proves itself unsuitable for vaping because of it's high IR (internal resistance). The voltage sag when used at 20Amps is borderline - as in any higher amps and a mod would refuse to fire with the 'weak battery', or 'power short' warning. The battery is indeed rated at 25Amps, but it takes more than a high rating to make a battery suitable.
To clarify, this battery would be categorically incompatible with say a 'Sig 100'?

You're raising great points here dafellon, and we're into the stuff that normally doesn't get discussed here but does need to be considered. Especially since I seem to be missing some detrimental information. I also agree with the underlined below. A lot can be chalked up to user error however. You ever flicked the Volt switch on the back of a PC tower? Nearly pissed my pants!!!

My personal bias against this battery is that it's an ICR. Even a 'protected' ICR battery can blow as any electronics can go wrong, even a protection circuit.
Dampfakkus also claimed the HD2 is an IMR?

[dafellon]

Apr 28, 2015 10:13:33 GMT VapingBad said:

dafellon I would agree with all the points Ripshod raised and like to address 2 points you raised:

"The MAH rating is what is of interest for this battery"
I would say this is the least important, you need to ensure that the battery is capable for the application and in e-cigs the maximum continuous discharge rate and safety should be addressed first.

"Unprotected ICR!! Why is this relevant? What do you mean by unprotected?"
ICR is the chemical type (more family) of the battery (anode chemistry), it is a cheap type of battery optimised for capacity and not safety or output current, Panasonic often have a graphic showing this on their data-sheets. But more importantly for us if they go into thermal runaway they are far more violent than IMR/safer chemistry and have a point of no return where the chemical reaction that can cause flaming etc will continue even if the condition which started it is rectified. I would only use ICR in quality low power regulated devices < 15 W, I have some in power banks but never use them for vaping.

From a Panasonic NCR18650B data-sheet.  IMR in the top-left (safest), Cobalt based (ICR) and Nickel based (NCR/NNP) along the bottom (least safe)


Unprotected simply means the is not protection module on the battery, these can fail or get damaged by static so should never rely on only these to ensure your safety.


If you want to learn more there are lots of links at the bottom of the last page of the guide in my footer.

Thanks for this and the links. However, still not seeing a reason just now as to why I should not use either the first or second battery in a dual parallel 30/40w device? The DNA40 will in fact accept any battery, it just limits the capability to that of the battery, or so I'm led to believe, but why with dual parallel LGMJ11's would I not be able to utilize the device to its full potential? Colour me ignorant gents.

[Ripshod]

To clarify, this battery would be categorically incompatible with say a 'Sig 100'?

It'll work, but there are other, safer batteries that would work better. I'd personally recommend buy a couple of 25Rs if I had the sig.

Dampfakkus also claimed the HD2 is an IMR?

Mistakes happen - it's definitely an ICR.

You ever flicked the Volt switch on the back of a PC tower? Nearly pissed my pants!!!

Can be blo**y frightening!! Happening less and less since the advent of the modern PSU (no voltage selector). I made a lot of money from peeps flicking the switch - 'My mate told me it would make it more powerful!!'

As for battery bro I have to laugh at myself sometimes. When I see a statement such as 'Prices Hidden- Please Create an account' I take it that's what they actually mean. Great to see a vendor having VTC5s on site, whilst pushing their own blog that declares all VTC5s are fake.

[phatfil]

Apr 26, 2015 21:06:07 GMT dafellon said:

I'll be getting in on this; Top Bin 18650's

I know very little about batteries, still very low down on the learning curve, but i started to watch the vid in the link, and im sorry 10 seconds of listening to the US put on gangsta accent used by the presenter just turned me right off.. perhaps it my age, but come on. or should i say Yo Man dis aint der real shizzle.