batteries

[dafellon]

Apr 29, 2015 14:43:02 GMT Ripshod said:

Apr 29, 2015 14:26:32 GMT dafellon said:

I'm under the impression the HE2 is an ICR?

Where did you get that info from? Both the HE2 and HE4 are IMRs

Is it not in the part number as with the HD2... I see everywhere ICR18650HE2???

[Ripshod]

Ah, explains the confusion dafellon. LG are still using the old ICR reference. More precisely it's a hybrid. Though it's not technically an IMR it is 'safer chemistry'. So it's safe to treat it as an IMR because it behaves exactly the same.

Samsung batteries are INR (25R/20R), yet again they are 'safer chemistry'- they behave the same so are also considered an IMR.

As vapers we try and keep things simple for others. However, as you have discovered, once we dig a little deeper the little things begin to appear a little bigger than they are.

The HE's are safe to use as IMR, as are the Samsungs.

The term 'IMR' goes hand-in-hand with 'safer chemistry'. Hope this helps 

ETA: It's not often we get asked these questions. In the vaping community much of the advice is taken on trust. I'm glad you're asking these questions - but there's a lot to learn. I don't know 10% of it all, but I know enough to stay safe.


Further reading, a little chemistry.

[Ripshod]

As an aside.

The LGDAHB61865 was brought up earlier. It wasn't on the cadex machine's database so I did a little digging.

It is rated at 30Amps continuous. However, it's an unprotected ICR so not suitable for our purpose. Add to that a paltry capacity of 1500 mAh and we see it wouldn't last long anyway. I can't recommend it.

[dafellon]

May 1, 2015 7:59:21 GMT Ripshod said:

Ah, explains the confusion dafellon. LG are still using the old ICR reference. More precisely it's a hybrid. Though it's not technically an IMR it is 'safer chemistry'. So it's safe to treat it as an IMR because it behaves exactly the same.

Samsung batteries are INR (25R/20R), yet again they are 'safer chemistry'- they behave the same so are also considered an IMR.

As vapers we try and keep things simple for others. However, as you have discovered, once we dig a little deeper the little things begin to appear a little bigger than they are.

The HE's are safe to use as IMR, as are the Samsungs.

The term 'IMR' goes hand-in-hand with 'safer chemistry'. Hope this helps 

ETA: It's not often we get asked these questions. In the vaping community much of the advice is taken on trust. I'm glad you're asking these questions - but there's a lot to learn. I don't know 10% of it all, but I know enough to stay safe.


Further reading, a little chemistry.

How do I find/ confirm this info, if so much incorrect information starts with the manufacturer?

[dafellon]

May 1, 2015 8:21:45 GMT Ripshod said:

As an aside.

The LGDAHB61865 was brought up earlier. It wasn't on the cadex machine's database so I did a little digging.

It is rated at 30Amps continuous. However, it's an unprotected ICR so not suitable for our purpose. Add to that a paltry capacity of 1500 mAh and we see it wouldn't last long anyway. I can't recommend it.

This one is actually just about the amp draw. The VTC3 had about the same mah.

As far a LG is concerned, ICR is just a derogatory term unless unprotected in which case would have high IR and is capable of thermal runaway?


Thanks for the link by the way.

[VapingBad]

May 1, 2015 23:40:00 GMT dafellon said:

May 1, 2015 8:21:45 GMT Ripshod said:

As an aside.

The LGDAHB61865 was brought up earlier. It wasn't on the cadex machine's database so I did a little digging.

It is rated at 30Amps continuous. However, it's an unprotected ICR so not suitable for our purpose. Add to that a paltry capacity of 1500 mAh and we see it wouldn't last long anyway. I can't recommend it.

This one is actually just about the amp draw. The VTC3 had about the same mah.

As far a LG is concerned, ICR is just a derogatory term unless unprotected in which case would have high IR and is capable of thermal runaway?


Thanks for the link by the way.

Nope, the C is for Colbalt based cathode, in IMR the M is for Manganese based cathode, the cathodes chemistry and structure are where the main advances have occurred in recent years.  There is a link "What exactly does IMR mean" at the bottom of the last page of the guide liked in my footer and suggest you read that and some of the other links as you are obviously interested in the detail.

[Ripshod]

I'm changing the term 'battery' to 'cell' for this post, as that is what these are.

Electronics can go wrong. Protection circuits can go wrong (it only takes the slightest damage). So we can say for sure that ANY ICR is capable of thermal runaway. And yes, IMR/INR can go into thermal runaway too.

But it's the way they do it. An ICR will get so hot the anode will burn. I mean burn like a flare, or a powerful firework. You won't want that to go off in your hand for sure.

An IMR/INR will also go into thermal runaway under the right conditions, only much gentler. It'll get hot, but not so hot it'll burn your hand before you drop it. More like a boiling kettle than the firework analogy - that's 'safer chemistry'.

If LG considered ICR to be derogatory would they use it for their own cells? No. It's not derogatory. Every type of cell has it's uses, or they wouldn't all be developed or available.

There's not that many cells considered safe for vaping. It's short enough to count on both hands.
For myself I've reduced that list to just 4 or 5 cells.

We always have to remember these cells were never intended for vaping. Most were intended for power tools and laptop batteries. A few have been designed specifically for torches and such. Not one for vaping.

What we have done as vapers is take these cells and re-purpose them. We will never get the support of any manufacturer of these cells because we are using them outside of their intended purpose. We have no warranty. There will probably never be a 'where there's blame there's a....' claim. So we watch ourselves. Much of what I know now I've learned through using these cells.

If you want to learn then study these forums. Read what myself and VapingBad are advising here. Check out what Badittude is recommending over on ECF. Spot a cell, check it out. Knowledge (read experience) is cheap, all it costs is a little time. We can't teach you everything in a few days.

My current hotlist (in order):
(Up to 50Watts (regulated))
Samsung 25R
LG HE2
LG HE4
(Up to 75 Watts(regulated))
Sony VTC4
Nitecore IMR18650A

 'd I actually started typing this before VB responded 

[monty]

Panasonic NCR18650PF are fine as far as power goes for the vapor flask. They are 18.2mm wide so check they will fit. Ecolux rates them as 10 Amps continuous. 15 quid for 4 from FT

[Ripshod]

I wouldn't advise using the NCR18650PF over 25Watts in any regulated mod. The good news as it's a hybrid (safer chemistry again) it won't flame if you do overload it, maximum charge current is 1.5Amps.

But that's just advice based on specs and experience, with a smidge of opinion.

ETA: Just realised the VF is a dually   so yh, they're dandy. Pretty good choice to be frank, nice capacity for a longer vape.

[Ripshod]

monty I have to revisit this subject after some background work between myself and another member.

There's not a lot of info out there on the NCR18650PF. However, I discovered last night that Orbtronic relable this cell and call it 18650PD.

Now, using the comparator, and comparing the Orbtronic with a Samsung 25R, if we take the low Volts limit on the DNA40 (3.1Volts) we see the capacity to that point is identical for both cells at the 10 Amp limit of the Orbtronic. There is a slightly larger Volt drop at first use but the Orbtronic soon catches up.

In layman's terms this means the performance of both cells at 10Amps in a regulated mod is identical.

I'll not recommend against the NCR18650PF, certainly not for a 10Amp cell. I would say it's good for a dual battery DNA setup, but the only reason to choose the Panasonic NCR18650PF over the Samsung 25R would be the price or the availability.

[dafellon]

Ripshod cc: VapingBad

What did you mean by "LG are still using the old ICR reference." in response to LG HE2's being listed as ICR18650HE2?

[Ripshod]

Simply they're still using 'ICR' in the descriptions (the part number is LGDBHE21865) rather than the more correct 'IMR'.

[flavourtank]

Ripshod VapingBad

are these any good?


puremist.co.uk/2-SAMSUNG-25R-INR18650-25R-2500mAh%20?search=25r

[thatguy]

I've no experience with the vendor, but those samsung cells are the go to guys in 18650 vaping at the moment.

[VapingBad]

May 10, 2015 20:27:24 GMT flavourtank said:

Ripshod VapingBad

are these any good?


puremist.co.uk/2-SAMSUNG-25R-INR18650-25R-2500mAh%20?search=25r

What thatguy said, great batteries, but don't know the vendor.