Vaping ethanol

[Bobsbeer]

Many ejuices contain ethanol, mainly from the solvent of the flavourings.  Some add vodka to their mixes.  So is ethanol safe?  I just happened to be reading Wikipedia and saw this:

Ethanol combustion in an internal combustion engine yields many of the products of incomplete combustion produced by gasoline and significantly larger amounts of formaldehyde and related species such as acetaldehyde.[35]

I know we don't burn the juice as such, but we do subject it to quite a high heat.  So my question is, does anyone know if formaldehyde and acetaldehyde are formed when vaping juice that contains ethanol?

[*-SARIN-*]

Yes ethanol is safe in moderation, it's a component in all drinking alcohol - abuse it though and it will kill you via depression of the central nervous system, either that or you will choke on your own vomit. Complete combustion will yield only carbon dioxide and water but given the right conditions it can undergo oxidation to form acetaldehydes. However the major difference between the products produced between heating (vaping) and combustion has to do with the other substances in the chemical system. In an engine there is an abundance of NOx (Nitrous oxide or nitric oxide), themselves both powerful oxidisers with the ability to produce acetaldehydes from ethanol, this is not the case with vaping.

Formaldehyde is not produced from the heating of ethanol but could be a by-product of a burning wick from a dry hit and ethanol being flammable could cause more of the wick to burn for longer.

TL;DR

Safe? - Yes
Formed? - Not in normal conditions but possible in other circumstances.

PS: Both acetaldehydes and formaldehyde are present in much larger amounts in tobacco smoke - mainly due to the combustion of the tobacco.

[*-SARIN-*]

Still not convinced? There is the practice of inhaling vaporised alcohol in nightclubs which is currently deemed both legal and safe.

[tim]

I'm pretty sure that *top fuel* dragsters use ethanol as their primary fuel, and they shoot flames out of the headers.

Still, it might make you vape faster

[jevans]

Bobsbeer
Just stick to making it Bob!


Jim

[phtumshk]

Oct 13, 2015 19:09:49 GMT tim said:

I'm pretty sure that *top fuel* dragsters use ethanol as their primary fuel, and they shoot flames out of the headers.

Still, it might make you vape faster

Not just the dragsters theyve been watering down regular unleaded with it for years lol.

[gm111]

You definatly get side affects just breathing it in so I'd say it's not so safe.

[tim]

Oct 13, 2015 21:27:44 GMT phtumshk said:

Oct 13, 2015 19:09:49 GMT tim said:

I'm pretty sure that *top fuel* dragsters use ethanol as their primary fuel, and they shoot flames out of the headers.

Still, it might make you vape faster

Not just the dragsters theyve been watering down regular unleaded with it for years lol.

Maybe they do, I don't know, but I'll believe you, it's a highly combustible product. And unleaded petrol is far worse for the environment than the old stuff.

[Bobsbeer]

All of you seem to be missing the point. Ethanol is just regular alcohol we probably all drink on a daily basis in our favorite tipple. I know that and enjoy it. I make the stuff on a regular basis. As vapers we are not drinking it, we are heating it to a high temperature. Even with a flaming Sambuca we don't inhale the fumes. The point I'm asking is not about the toxicity of drinking ethanol, but the toxicity by burning it in our vaping. Well okay maybe not burning it as such, but heating it to about 400F plus. I was asking if that was safe. I am not a scientist, I am a vaper. I was hoping that among our huge number on here, some would have some scientific knowledge about this kind of stuff, or at least be able to point me in the direction of scientific studies.

I would agree that the amount of ethanol in our juices is a small percentage. Therefore the amount of toxic agents given off has also got to be small. We are very quick to criticise the crap being said about vaping by supposed learned public health officials and pseudo scientists in the field, but we should also be willing to entertain the truth and real scientific reports. Don't get me wrong, I am a vaper and a former smoker. Whatever crap is being produced by my vaping has to be safer than smoking. That wasn't what I was asking. What I was asking, is heating ethanol to the temperature we vape at producing these toxic and carcinogenic chemicals? If so is the level harmful?

[Bobsbeer]

Oct 13, 2015 19:15:21 GMT jevans said:

Bobsbeer
Just stick to making it Bob!


Jim

I have no intentions of stopping Jim. 

[beedee]

What *-SARIN-* says sounds like sense, Bobsbeer . If your looking for irrefutable scientific evidence that it's safe to vape anything you won't find it, because the research has just not been done. I've looked all over the web for stuff about ethanol and nowhere says it's unsafe to vape in the tiny quantities we use. My experience of using 1 flavouring with ethanol was that the taste lingered in my atty so long I had to rewick.

[tim]

What beedee said. There is no data to say that vaping anything is 100% safe. So you might have to either put it on your "Don't vape" list, or accept that it is still safer than smoking tobacco.

[*-SARIN-*]

Oct 13, 2015 23:07:31 GMT Bobsbeer said:

All of you seem to be missing the point. Ethanol is just regular alcohol we probably all drink on a daily basis in our favorite tipple. I know that and enjoy it. I make the stuff on a regular basis. As vapers we are not drinking it, we are heating it to a high temperature. Even with a flaming Sambuca we don't inhale the fumes. The point I'm asking is not about the toxicity of drinking ethanol, but the toxicity by burning it in our vaping. Well okay maybe not burning it as such, but heating it to about 400F plus. I was asking if that was safe. I am not a scientist, I am a vaper. I was hoping that among our huge number on here, some would have some scientific knowledge about this kind of stuff, or at least be able to point me in the direction of scientific studies.

I would agree that the amount of ethanol in our juices is a small percentage. Therefore the amount of toxic agents given off has also got to be small. We are very quick to criticise the crap being said about vaping by supposed learned public health officials and pseudo scientists in the field, but we should also be willing to entertain the truth and real scientific reports. Don't get me wrong, I am a vaper and a former smoker. Whatever crap is being produced by my vaping has to be safer than smoking. That wasn't what I was asking. What I was asking, is heating ethanol to the temperature we vape at producing these toxic and carcinogenic chemicals? If so is the level harmful?

Please re-read my initial post, all your questions and concerns are addressed in there.

[phatfil]

you sure can Huff ethanol, and it goes a lot further than if drunk too.. but you do need close to azero pure stuff.. not too tricky to create wink wink.. i have vague recollection of huffing ribena flavoured ethanol in my early teens and the ensuing hangover too.. ( hey it was better than glue or butane the other popular 'huffs' at the time...)

as long as its in a concentration below the flash level then its safe to vape explosion wise at least.

its an inert solvent for active chemicals and flavours such as THC and other phytocannabinoids
so can be used to transfer matter into a PG suspension via simple dilution and heating to evaporate off the ethanol..

but not much use for getting pissed while vaping tho as the concentrations in juice and the 'portions' vaped are miniscule.

[Bobsbeer]

Oct 13, 2015 14:31:40 GMT *-SARIN-* said:

Yes ethanol is safe in moderation, it's a component in all drinking alcohol - abuse it though and it will kill you via depression of the central nervous system, either that or you will choke on your own vomit.

I agree ethanol is safe to drink in moderation of course.  That wasn't what I asked.

Complete combustion will yield only carbon dioxide and water but given the right conditions it can undergo oxidation to form acetaldehydes. However the major difference between the products produced between heating (vaping) and combustion has to do with the other substances in the chemical system. In an engine there is an abundance of NOx (Nitrous oxide or nitric oxide), themselves both powerful oxidisers with the ability to produce acetaldehydes from ethanol, this is not the case with vaping.

While I agree that there may be other substances added to vehicle fuel, I'm talking about ethanol.  My original question was about vaping ethanol, not stuff out of a pump at a petrol station.  I also agree that we are not igniting ethanol during vaping, merely heating it to a high temperature. So yes there are major differences.  That wasn't the question I asked.  I asked does anyone know if formaldehyde and acetaldehyde are formed when vaping juice that contains ethanol?

Formaldehyde is not produced from the heating of ethanol but could be a by-product of a burning wick from a dry hit and ethanol being flammable could cause more of the wick to burn for longer.

The above statement comes closest to answering my question, and if you have evidence it would be good to see?  I would like to believe that merely heating isn't going to create formaldehyde, although I remain sceptical and would like to see any evidence to support that assertion.

TL;DR

Safe? - Yes
Formed? - Not in normal conditions but possible in other circumstances.

PS: Both acetaldehydes and formaldehyde are present in much larger amounts in tobacco smoke - mainly due to the combustion of the tobacco.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that vaping carries risks.  Much of those risks we don't yet know the answer.  I also agree that smoking will be hugely more harmful than vaping ever can be.  I also accept that the amount of ethanol in any of our juices will be a very small proportion of the volume we consume.  It therefore follows that the amounts of toxic substances, if present, will be very small.  Therefore the harm may be small.  It may be negligible.  I don't know that's why I asked.  I probably breath in more harmful contaminants walking to the shops from all the diesel/petrol fumes than I would in a years worth of vaping.

My question was more about being a fully informed vaper rather than continuing in blissful ignorance.  If there is evidence one way or the other we should be able to discuss it in an open free way.  I have no plans to stop vaping unless evidence were to be found that the risk of doing myself harm was high.  An unlikely scenario.  Knowledge gives us choices.  Not all ejuice contains ethanol.  I will continue to use my juice until I read evidence to the contrary.  But lets do this with knowledge not guesswork and supposition.