When clones really hurt.........

[ginge7289]

This is taken from UKV, but it really does seal the deal for me. Im not a fan of clones as many are aware. I keep my opinion to myself most of the time, but this is not about quality control or stealing from a company/Modder this is down right disgusting. Although China is renowned for its slave labour do we really have to feed it more fuel???? Just imagine if your child was being subjected to this daily................................

ukvapers.org/Thread-Clones-a-personal-price

No...not another "butt hurt elitist" proclaiming the hows and whys of an original being superior to a clone, but rather an "angry, upset and ashamed elitist" relaying a personal tale of exactly why I will never touch anything, vaping-related or otherwise, that emanates from China.

I'm far from naive and have long been aware of the human rights abuses and slave labour practices that have long been a part PRC but, as with most things in life, it only really affects us as it should and makes us take notice when it encroaches into the comfy cocoon of our own lives. I have been working with a vulnerable young Chinese girl for a couple of weeks, in an attempt to try and locate the current whereabouts of her mother. Her mother had been forced into prostitution several years ago and, as a resul,t both she and her young daughter had been sent to a forced labour camp for 18 months - the daughter to a child's camp, her mother to one for adults. The young girl was released several months ago but. unfortunately, there has been no news of her mother since she entered the camp, and neighbours report that she never returned to the family home. As you would expect, the young lassie was extremely withdrawn and it was difficult to gain any information from her about her experiences...until today!

The female interpreter and I were, again, getting very little from the girl when from nowhere she became completely hysterical and visibly terrified and this went on for absolutely ages...the poor wee soul was trembling and in floods of tears. When, she had calmed down slightly, I asked her what was wrong and she pointed at my desk (which was behind me, but facing the girl). All that is on my desk is a computer with the screen switched off), a phone, an in-tray with some paperwork in it...and my vape-kit. Yep, it was my Versa mod/Kayfun combo that had absolutely terrified this wee girl and turned her into an emotional wreck. After some gentle and careful probing, it slowly emerged that one of the "rehabilitation tasks" she and her fellow child inmates underwent was being transported to a "huge shed" each morning to assemble various production items for 18hrs a day for the equivalent of about 20p a day. Most days it was toys or Christmas decorations...but some days it was stuff that looked just like my mod and atty. The young girl then went on to describe the inhumane conditions of "work" and showed us some of the evidence of the beatings within both the shed and the camp.

Although this had been a terribly distressing afternoon for her, she seems somewhat relieved at being able to talk openly about her experiences and it now allows us to refer her to other professionals who are best placed to support and assist her in dealing with the physical and psychological trauma caused by the recent past. It's helped me also because, no matter how much I read or watch about this type of slave labour / systematic child abuse in the the interests of profit...nothing will ever have the sledge-hammer impact of that wee girl's face, her flood of tears or the permanent scars on her body. All my previous criticisms of clones (on the basis of the ethics of theft and its effect on the original modders) pale into trivial insignificance for me personally now.

Today has dramatically reinforced for me the importance that my choices have on others and my conscience will not allow me to be complicit in such obscenities. I know I can't change the situation, but what's important to me is what I CAN do...and that is to ensure that not one single penny of mine will (knowingly) be heading to China. And before some wise-ass comments, yes there may be Chinese parts/components in some stuff in my house...I can't change what I've bought in the past but I can promise that if I find any then they're gone. It may not be much, but I will not be party to what that girl went through to save myself a few quid.  

[dreamylittledream]

Yes

Good luck to dechinaerisng your life as your clothes, your TV, your idevice, your computer and pretty much every other consumer device in your life was at least partly made there too

This kind of thing is tedious really and adds nothing to the clone wars debate

[Super-Shiny]

Not vaping related but.......

When i worked at a certain manufacturer years ago they decided to buy locks from China and the locks came over in their thousands week by week, all was going well.

I and some other staff went over to China to see the company and manufacturing line, i myself was shocked beyond belief, there was four floors to the building and in the middle of the top floor right too the ground floor was a massive hole, i asked what the hell is that and the person showing us around replied "That is where the floor could not handle the weight of one of the machines so it fell though from top to bottom"

I at that time was shocked and could not believe what i was hearing but everyone else i was with did not even blink a eye

Anyway 2-3 months when all the locks was arriving all was going so well, business was booming, everyone in the company was over the moon.

Around 1-2 months later the public bypassed the local locksmith installing these locks and came direct to us, the supplier too the locksmiths and everyday non stop people was saying:

The lock won't open
I am locked out
The key is jammed
I have been charged £200.00 for it to be installed (The locksmith bought these of us for £6.00 max)

The problems went on for ages and it came to a point when a old lady got through to me when my whole life changed in the company, she told me after it all happened that "She could not open the lock and that she fell over in the process and even her kids could not even get in to get to her and that the fire brigade had to open the door.

This was not the last, for days on end old and young people got through to us complaining that the locks was failing left right and center, even a hospital where patients could not get out of their rooms.

It was then it got to a point that i could not take this no more as i felt so bad not just for the people who made the locks abut also for the public who bought them so i confronted the top dogs in my company and was shrugged off but i perused and they hated me for it but could not sack me for it.

Until........the recession come, it was the perfect excuse for them to get rid of me and they did after 25 years of working for them, all because i stood up to them for selling a product that can kill people and the working conditions of the people making them.

Damm my fingers are hurting me now

[poochops]

I'm growing more and more disgruntled with clones purely because of the quality differences compared to the originals but I'm lucky enough to be in a position to be able to choose.

Also, I'm reasonably comfortable with my belief that the vast majority of clones are assembled by Chinese economic migrants from the countryside who move to the industrialised regions to earn minimum wage for bloody long hours and who only get to go home once a year; this being a marked improvement on their previous lives trying to make enough from a tiny patch of government allocated land to support their families in rice and roots and chickens.

It's far from ideal but it's a damned site better than it was twenty years ago and it's getting better year on year. You cannot avoid Chinese goods manufactured under exactly the same conditions in every single area of life. Sad to say perhaps but nonetheless true.

Google child labour anywhere east of Northern Europe and you'll find similar stories to the original post, the only thing that will end it is continued economic development in those countries. Stop buying Chinese (like you ever ever could) and you'll contribute to perpetuating the status quo.

Buy originals if you can because they're better.

[OneDay]

This isn't about cloned e-cigs, it's about capitalism. We all enjoy the benefits day in, day out and it's not going to change.

[Gary Horder]

Well the thread their got locked after diving into a slurry of abuse. They do hate anything that is clone related

[Gary Horder]

Jan 3, 2014 22:04:37 GMT OneDay said:

This isn't about cloned e-cigs, it's about capitalism. We all enjoy the benefits day in, day out and it's not going to change.

As even the original op from UKV said

she and her fellow child inmates underwent was being transported to a "huge shed" each morning to assemble various production items for 18hrs a day for the equivalent of about 20p a day. Most days it was toys or Christmas decoration

[jordan]

I didn't comment on the UKV thread since it rapidly degraded into the familiar mud slinging that is the clone wars debate (sigh). While the OP's story was disturbing to say the least I feel that it wasn't something that needed to be tied into the clones debate.

'Most days it was toys or Christmas decorations...but some days it was stuff that looked just like my mod and atty' implies that the children could have been working on ecigs, but having said that mods are pretty much just metal tubes that look similar to a lot of things. Also most days they were working on toys/xmas decorations.

It's disgusting the conditions people endure in forced labor but knowing how volatile the UKV forum is regarding clones putting it forward the way he did was like throwing a match into a box of fireworks.

Rather than this being an issue with clones, this is an issue much broader and far reaching that unfortunately encompasses more than we in a consumerist society care to admit.

[newdawn]

On the plus side, at least it's discussed without mayhem here.

[dreamylittledream]

Oh for heavens sake

Its the tying it to the clones thing that's doing it - yes that's me the bloody meme with the I can't go to bed someone is wrong on the internet (if I wasn't less lazy I'd link it).

Lets be honest here - because this isn't Uk Vapers or the Pit....two thirds of us at least are using an ego, or maybe a twist, or a Vamo, or a spinner or an an eVic or an iTaste, an SVD maybe...well the MVP is always popular and how many threads have we had recently about a bloody VTR. Because for most vaping isn't an elite sport with hand crafted devices from Greece or Scandinavia - its about whats available, what works and what'd affordable.

And where do all these originate? Hell who came up with most of these things...actually who came up with the 510 connection...

I don't know where my stuff was made or what circumstances created it - I also don't know where my son's Innotab was made that he loves dearly - but it says made in China.

This is about the way the modern world works....lets not be silly and suggest that cloned atmomisers have even had the slightest ripple of a butterflies wings in all this.

[ionian]

Just because it's a great meme and dreamylittledream deserves it to be posted

[Gary Horder]

Jan 3, 2014 23:11:08 GMT ionian said:

Just because it's a great meme and dreamylittledream deserves it to be posted

When i was a moderator on a large gaming forum, this was me EVERY night ....

[ginge7289]

Jan 3, 2014 22:38:24 GMT dreamylittledream said:

slightest ripple of a butterflies wings in all this.

I appreciate a lot of our stuff has COMPONENTS made in china and if Im honest I really don't know how big the ecig market is over there but this is just my take on it. Lets just have a little think about the size of these wings.

1.3 million (at the last count) vapers in the UK. If every single one of those bought one Mod from FT +1.3 million extra products

But they don't buy just one, they want 3 or 4 Mods and they want the same in Atties (This is proven in the FT threads on here and FB) so we will say 6 items per customer (excluding other items, juices, clearos, drip tips, etc etc) so 1.3 million items now turns to 7.8 million items.

Now this site is worldwide and I have not googled it but I reckon there must be close to 10 million vapers (I could be wrong???)

If they all purchased 6 items each does that not have a severe butterfly effect?????

[chykensa]

With respect to all who have posted on this topic, I have had a quick mental scan through my vape box, and I don't think there is anything there that ISN'T made in China, with perhaps the exception of some of the juice. Atties, batteries, mods, driptips, cartos, juice bottles, even the box itself; they are probably all Chinese in origin.
We are all aware of this despicable situation as we sit wearing our jeans and t-shirt, boxers and socks, drinking some coffee in a mug with water boiled in a kettle, while admiring our new laminate wood floor, etc. etc. - all of which were made in the PRC, or at the very least in the Far East.
I totally agree with the poster above who states that the only way we can help the situation is exactly the opposite to which we feel is correct, namely to continue to buy these items in the hope that the economic situation will improve in these countries.
And finally before I turn in for the night, I do contest that discussions of this nature on this forum have a much more civilised feel to them - it's one of the reasons that I rarely dip into other fora now, because I get so depressed by the swearing, posturing and pretentiousness contained therein.

[smithyss]

The clone debate is the main reason I rarely post on any forum. I feel like an outsider just like the community made me feel when I was a smoker. If I choose to buy a clone then that will be my choice and mine alone, but surely as a baking community we should be supporting all vapers?. Also I have decided not to turn up at the meet in Cardiff on the 11th for the exact same reason. The vaping community is broken and will remain that way. Understood this forum is much much better and more open about all baking equipment, if I need advice I know where I will come. Kudos to the owner of this forum who supports all and treats all the same reguardess of what they vape