is it all too complicated?

[poochops]

I see loads of people vaping, particularly when I go over to the retail park to buy my lunch, I'd say 90% are vaping some sort of ego powered device and the other ten percent are using a cigalike, I don't think I've ever seen a mod out and about.

I don't think they find it too confusing either, most people start on a cig a like or a Ce4 on an ego from the garage, I don't think I've been in a petrol station that doesn't sell them! Most don't move on from that either, we're all bloody weirdos us lot vaping huge tanks on fat mods, we must look like proper nut jobs outside on the street thank god were a tiny minority

[Karma]

Jan 20, 2014 20:27:57 GMT poochops said:

 we must look like proper nut jobs outside on the street thank god were a tiny minority

Oi, I like being a nut job


 

[poochops]

Ha ha Me too Karma I walk round with a polished stainless provari with a Rose in full metal jacket on top, I don't half get some funny looks though

[chris86]

I think that the more basic gear is fairly simple to use, but unfortunately often varies in quality, which can lead to unnecessary complications. Leaking clearos, for example, are much more common than they should be. These kinds of problems could be solved with better quality control, which we should be demanding from manufacturers. But things are slowly improving, and I live in hope that we will see the development of increasingly durable and reliable inexpensive devices.

At the other end of the spectrum, the expensive equipment is typically quite durable and reliable. But I think that it is too complicated to appeal to most people, who aren't interested in spending time and effort on building coils. I think that the next big step forward in vaping will happen if makers of high end devices develop something which offers the same build quality and quality of vape as an RBA, but without the need for rebuilding. I'm sure that modders have the ability to make those developments, but I'm not convinced that they have the motivation. Most of them are enthusiasts who design stuff for the benefit of fellow enthusiasts. They enjoy tinkering and faffing, so they aren't likely to design faff-free devices! I think that this is a shame, because not everyone has the ability or desire to get into building coils, but that doesn't mean that they don't want to enjoy high end equipment and a decent vape.

[aaront903]

I'm keeping it simple atm basic vv/vw and rcs tanks until I feel I'm ready for the next step (rebuildables) but very much looking forward to it

[silentscream]

How complicated it is (or isn't) can depend on how the potential new vaper comes into contact with it. If they find some clown in a mall trying to sell them cigalikes at exorbitant prices it will seem very uncomplicated but not particularly attractive though obviously cigalikes have worked for some people.
If they are just interested and come to a forum they'll be advised to get something like an EVOD starter kit (that's what happened to me when I came here) and that to me wasn't complicated at all, I bought a few liquids with it when I ordered and off I went.

What really annoys me is seeing threads on forums from new vapers who are asking questions about starter gear and some idiot is trying to get them to buy a mod and an RBA like obviously the newb is going to know what the hell that is. If anything is going to turn people off, that will do it.

As others have said, once you get an idea of what's out there it can be as complicated or uncomplicated as you want it to be. I'm 3 months into vaping now and use an Ego V V3 with a mini protank 2, I also have an Aspire BDC and a protank 2. I'm fine with that, I can't be arsed with rewicking and recoiling when I want a new head I just stick one in and off I go. I'll probably get a mech at some point to extend battery life etc but if I have to do my own wicks and coils RBA is out forever for me. That's just my choice but there you have it... the choice IS there, we can all put as much or as little effort into vaping as we like and still all be happy

[Perpetua]

Jan 20, 2014 18:27:12 GMT toots said:

Friend of mine bought an ego 650mAh battery and a CE4 clearo & a 10ml bottle of tobacco juice 8 months ago and hasn't moved on to anything else. She's given up smoking and doesn't treat vaping as a hobby, just a means of not smoking anymore - simple.

She's replaced the battery once or twice, bought several CE4 clearos and buys a drop of menthol juice from time to time as a change from tobacco - that's it - job done for her

Exactly this . . . my vaping friend of 2.5 years, has only just moved onto a SID in the last 6 months. Purely because they were getting tired of the run time on Ego style batteries. Had they been the only option available, then doubtless they wouldn't have ' upgraded ' - like many of us I should think.

I make the Menthol eliquid for them/buy supplies, in return for some freezer space for nic base and dog sitting services.

[kibbster]

Jan 20, 2014 18:27:12 GMT toots said:

Friend of mine bought an ego 650mAh battery and a CE4 clearo & a 10ml bottle of tobacco juice 8 months ago and hasn't moved on to anything else. She's given up smoking and doesn't treat vaping as a hobby, just a means of not smoking anymore - simple.

She's replaced the battery once or twice, bought several CE4 clearos and buys a drop of menthol juice from time to time as a change from tobacco - that's it - job done for her

Most of my friends at work are exactly that.
Ego batts and Evods or cheap clearos and it does the job for them and that's probably as far as they'll ever go.
One of my workmates is still on VIP lookalikes after a year and she's happy.

For most I suspect the Ego and clearo or Evod is as much as they ever need or as far as they'll go.
Even signing on to a forum makes us seem like enthusiasts (or spotters if you will) to most

[Deleted]

Jan 20, 2014 21:22:17 GMT chris86 said:

I think that the more basic gear is fairly simple to use, but unfortunately often varies in quality, which can lead to unnecessary complications. Leaking clearos, for example, are much more common than they should be. These kinds of problems could be solved with better quality control, which we should be demanding from manufacturers. But things are slowly improving, and I live in hope that we will see the development of increasingly durable and reliable inexpensive devices.

At the other end of the spectrum, the expensive equipment is typically quite durable and reliable. But I think that it is too complicated to appeal to most people, who aren't interested in spending time and effort on building coils. I think that the next big step forward in vaping will happen if makers of high end devices develop something which offers the same build quality and quality of vape as an RBA, but without the need for rebuilding. I'm sure that modders have the ability to make those developments, but I'm not convinced that they have the motivation. Most of them are enthusiasts who design stuff for the benefit of fellow enthusiasts. They enjoy tinkering and faffing, so they aren't likely to design faff-free devices! I think that this is a shame, because not everyone has the ability or desire to get into building coils, but that doesn't mean that they don't want to enjoy high end equipment and a decent vape.

I fully appreciate the point you are making here chris86 but the whole point of an RBA is that the user is able to build the coil and set the device up to his/her exact requirements, not just stick an expensive, stock, mass manufactured replacement head into it. If you were to take any group of, say, Kayfun 3.1 owners, you would be hard pushed to find any two of them that had set the Kayfun up exactly the same. A little bit of effort and practice in making your own coils pays off not only in the quality of the vape but in the satisfaction of knowing that you made it and it cost pennies ...  there really is nothing to it and if a ham-fisted numpty like me with bad eyesight can recoil a RBA in less than 5 mins, then anyone can.

[Deleted]

In my opinion and my opinion only, playing the "vaping is too complicated" card can be taken as an excuse for any individual who doesn't really want to give up stinkies. Like most things, a little perseverance at the beginning may be necessary to make the switch to vaping but in the end it will not be to everyone's liking and there will be those who will return to stinkies. It can be as complicated or uncomplicated, expensive or inexpensive as the individual wants to make it. Vaping is not a one size fits all activity, a little research will go a long way to getting a reasonable, inexpensive and uncomplicated set up. From then on its the decision to upgrade or stay put. Maybe that's where it gets complicated ! ! ! !

[chris86]

Jan 21, 2014 7:36:52 GMT @freefromsmoking said:

Jan 20, 2014 21:22:17 GMT chris86 said:

I think that the more basic gear is fairly simple to use, but unfortunately often varies in quality, which can lead to unnecessary complications. Leaking clearos, for example, are much more common than they should be. These kinds of problems could be solved with better quality control, which we should be demanding from manufacturers. But things are slowly improving, and I live in hope that we will see the development of increasingly durable and reliable inexpensive devices.

At the other end of the spectrum, the expensive equipment is typically quite durable and reliable. But I think that it is too complicated to appeal to most people, who aren't interested in spending time and effort on building coils. I think that the next big step forward in vaping will happen if makers of high end devices develop something which offers the same build quality and quality of vape as an RBA, but without the need for rebuilding. I'm sure that modders have the ability to make those developments, but I'm not convinced that they have the motivation. Most of them are enthusiasts who design stuff for the benefit of fellow enthusiasts. They enjoy tinkering and faffing, so they aren't likely to design faff-free devices! I think that this is a shame, because not everyone has the ability or desire to get into building coils, but that doesn't mean that they don't want to enjoy high end equipment and a decent vape.

I fully appreciate the point you are making here chris86 but the whole point of an RBA is that the user is able to build the coil and set the device up to his/her exact requirements, not just stick an expensive, stock, mass manufactured replacement head into it. If you were to take any group of, say, Kayfun 3.1 owners, you would be hard pushed to find any two of them that had set the Kayfun up exactly the same. A little bit of effort and practice in making your own coils pays off not only in the quality of the vape but in the satisfaction of knowing that you made it and it cost pennies ...  there really is nothing to it and if a ham-fisted numpty like me with bad eyesight can recoil a RBA in less than 5 mins, then anyone can.

I'm sure that most people could learn to recoil if they wanted to, but I'm really not convinced that most people would want to. I, for one, value the convenience of just popping in a stock head over the higher quality of vape you get from an RBA, so rebuildables just aren't for me. Not everyone is looking for vaping nirvana, and not everyone is the kind of person who gets satisfaction from making coils. I think that RBA users only make up a minority of vapers, and that there are far more people out there who are content with their clearos and who have no intention of getting into rebuilding. And it would be great if manufacturers of more reliable equipment could keep that majority in mind when designing new devices.

I understand that one of the advantages of RBA's is that they are fully customisable, but maybe clearos could move in that direction if manufacturers offered a variety of different styles of stock heads for the same clearo. For example, it would be good if you could buy protank heads with standard coils, protank  heads with microcoils, protank heads with silica, protank heads with cotton, etc. That would allow the majority of vapers who aren't into rebuilding to customise their vape without getting into the more complicated side of vaping. 

[Deleted]

Jan 21, 2014 9:41:52 GMT chris86 said:

Jan 21, 2014 7:36:52 GMT @freefromsmoking said:

I fully appreciate the point you are making here chris86 but the whole point of an RBA is that the user is able to build the coil and set the device up to his/her exact requirements, not just stick an expensive, stock, mass manufactured replacement head into it. If you were to take any group of, say, Kayfun 3.1 owners, you would be hard pushed to find any two of them that had set the Kayfun up exactly the same. A little bit of effort and practice in making your own coils pays off not only in the quality of the vape but in the satisfaction of knowing that you made it and it cost pennies ...  there really is nothing to it and if a ham-fisted numpty like me with bad eyesight can recoil a RBA in less than 5 mins, then anyone can.

I'm sure that most people could learn to recoil if they wanted to, but I'm really not convinced that most people would want to. I, for one, value the convenience of just popping in a stock head over the higher quality of vape you get from an RBA, so rebuildables just aren't for me. Not everyone is looking for vaping nirvana, and not everyone is the kind of person who gets satisfaction from making coils. I think that RBA users only make up a minority of vapers, and that there are far more people out there who are content with their clearos and who have no intention of getting into rebuilding. And it would be great if manufacturers of more reliable equipment could keep that majority in mind when designing new devices.

I understand that one of the advantages of RBA's is that they are fully customisable, but maybe clearos could move in that direction if manufacturers offered a variety of different styles of stock heads for the same clearo. For example, it would be good if you could buy protank heads with standard coils, protank  heads with microcoils, protank heads with silica, protank heads with cotton, etc. That would allow the majority of vapers who aren't into rebuilding to customise their vape without getting into the more complicated side of vaping. 

The majority of vapers that you refer to are well catered for by the mass market manufacturers like Innokin and kanger  with their easy replacement attie heads .... this is what the non-enthusiast vaper wants, faff free vaping ... you seem to want the modders like GG, Svoemesto etc who cater for the minority rebuildable enthusiasts to also cater for the mass market by producing a high end device with a replacable head but who among the average non-enthusiast vapers would be prepared to pay around £120 for what would in essence only be a stainless steel protank or similar, albeit a well engineered device?

[chris86]

Jan 21, 2014 10:08:59 GMT @freefromsmoking said:

Jan 21, 2014 9:41:52 GMT chris86 said:

I'm sure that most people could learn to recoil if they wanted to, but I'm really not convinced that most people would want to. I, for one, value the convenience of just popping in a stock head over the higher quality of vape you get from an RBA, so rebuildables just aren't for me. Not everyone is looking for vaping nirvana, and not everyone is the kind of person who gets satisfaction from making coils. I think that RBA users only make up a minority of vapers, and that there are far more people out there who are content with their clearos and who have no intention of getting into rebuilding. And it would be great if manufacturers of more reliable equipment could keep that majority in mind when designing new devices.

I understand that one of the advantages of RBA's is that they are fully customisable, but maybe clearos could move in that direction if manufacturers offered a variety of different styles of stock heads for the same clearo. For example, it would be good if you could buy protank heads with standard coils, protank  heads with microcoils, protank heads with silica, protank heads with cotton, etc. That would allow the majority of vapers who aren't into rebuilding to customise their vape without getting into the more complicated side of vaping. 

The majority of vapers that you refer to are well catered for by the mass market manufacturers like Innokin and kanger  with their easy replacement attie heads .... this is what the non-enthusiast vaper wants, faff free vaping ... you seem to want the modders like GG, Svoemesto etc who cater for the minority rebuildable enthusiasts to also cater for the mass market by producing a high end device with a replacable head but who among the average non-enthusiast vapers would be prepared to pay around £120 for what would in essence only be a stainless steel protank or similar, albeit a well engineered device?

There's clearly no market for a £120 protank, but I do think that we would see more innovation if there was more co-operation between modders and mass market manufacturers. Innokin and kanger could produce better devices if they integrated some of the advantages of RBA's into their devices, and modders could learn a few things from Innokin and kanger about producing faff-free devices that cater for a wide audience. I suspect that at the moment, the mass market manufacturers often don't prioritise designing devices that can be customised by the user, and the high end modders don't care very much about designing devices that are as faff-free and accessible as possible. As I see it, the ideal device is both customisable and simple to use.  In fact, I think that we're beginning to see this kind of innovation in devices like the Aerotank, which integrate the simplicity of clearos with adjustable airflow. But there are still improvements to be made, and we will see more progress if both mass market manufacturers and modders are willing to learn from each other. The divide between non-enthusiasts and enthusiasts isn't all that clear cut - there are many people who fall somewhere between cigalike / ego users and RBA users, so it would be good to see manufacturers trying to cater for that middle of the range. 

[tominmids]

Vaping can be as complicated or as simple as you want it to be.
After the obligatory couple of weeks bankrupting myself with cig-a likes I found this forum and got the Evod starter kit.
It is absolutely marvellous, So simple to use and maintain, charge batteries, fill tanks, change coils and occassionally wipe clean. It is almost as simple as the ciggy likes and definitely keeps me off baccy. Over the three months I've been vaping I've aquired a few more bits of kit, Protank minis a Protank2, a Spinner and an MVP2. They all add to my vaping experience and pleasure, but at the end of the day, all I need is my Evod kit because I tell myself at least once a day that the reason I got into vaping is to quit smoking forever, and all the the enjoyment that comes with this new hobby is just a bonus

[erik514]

I am really not sure it's complicated at all. I seems to me that it only seems complicated because it's new to people.
Yes there are a lot of choices and it can seem confusing in the beginning but once y get your head around it being a choice between a carto, a tank, a dripper and then what kind of tube to power it from it makes it seem simpler. It's all just a variation on a theme really.