Vendor responsibility

[ragjoy]

Jun 28, 2011 17:24:50 GMT shamreez said:

well chrissie it can be taken in another way as I had mentioned.

If he wanted the perfect batteries he could have got it from some reputable company selling proper protected batteries. (The extra charge ofcourse is for the superior quality used and also to include all the extra cost procured by the manufacturer seeing all those claims and issues)

But if we go and get a cheap battery we should be taking the risk of this.

I want a perfect charger but would I pay £40 + for a pila charger which would gaurantee a proper charge and also give me a proper claim if the charger does something stupid. But do I do that no I buy a £8 trustfire charger and with that cheap price I also take the risk that my charger might not be charging my battery properly and also it might destroy the battery and also (God forbid) everything around it.

So I would still say that I would not think to this vendor claims thing too much because I cannot afford the extra cost.

And most of the vendors we meet for e-cig are pretty decent enough to return bad stock and in some case give new stuff for destroyed ones (The product mistake or due to bad handling by us)


Quite a lot of vendors who are also members in this forum are very popular because of the rate in which they sell stuff to us.

Do you think they would be able to give us stuff at this rate if they had to take in to account all those claims and accountability. I dont think so

As I had mentioned before it my personal opinion.

frankly sham the battery and charger facts are simply not true.
the pila charger realistically is no safer neither legally or factually.
i read dozens of articles on chargers and and spoke to a few vendors.
the consensus was that the pila is great but not really any safer than a genuine trustfire or many others it is just a specialist charger.
the reason there are dangerous ones is that they are copied.
the batteries and charger i was using when my incident occurred were supplied by 2 of the bigger sellers, the batteries state they are specially made for them with all singing and dancing safety devices built in.
im not going through the whole story again but the main problem was the charger but the batteries should still not have done what they did ie: blow up.
the ecig vendors i believe do not buy direct from eg trustfire so they dont really know what they are buying therefore they are imo at least neglecting there duty by selling products they do not know for sure that there the real thing.
raggy...............

[james481538]

That would be great Hifi
Could you let me know what time that is please.
I am away tomorrow but hope the hotel broadband is up to letting me join the discussion.

[hissie]

Sorry but the way i view it is there are risks with everything & when handled responsibly & following instructions you are minimising the risks.

After all, you wouldn't risk using a chain saw without assessing the risks & handling the equipment safely & were possible as directed.

[hifistud]

Jun 28, 2011 22:01:29 GMT james481538 said:

That would be great Hifi
Could you let me know what time that is please.
I am away tomorrow but hope the hotel broadband is up to letting me join the discussion.

9pm BST, James - www.vapourtrails.tv - and you can phone in on 0117 2302 794 or skype in to hifistud

[hifistud]

Jun 28, 2011 23:09:05 GMT hissie said:

Sorry but the way i view it is there are risks with everything & when handled responsibly & following instructions you are minimising the risks.

After all, you wouldn't risk using a chain saw without assessing the risks & handling the equipment safely & were possible as directed.

And, indeed, in the workplace, would not be allowed to use a chainsaw without the required training and certification. And you'd need to be insured for public liability.

Daft question - how many C cells does your geet big torch take? Mine takes four - and it's never blown up. So why (says the absolute noob) is it a bad idea to put two unprotected li-ons in a Silver Bullet? Just cos Chad says so?

Assessing risk assumes being qualified so to do - I have no idea, for instance, what damage I might cause - if any - by using synthetic oil in my car. I'm not qualified to assess the risk, so I don't do it. Others may, but I use what it says in the handbook.

My mum's old microwave was happy as larry with tin foil plates in it - it shipped with some, but ours says don't do it. So I don't. I'm not qualified to argue with the instructions.

Same holds true of juice, in many ways - I'm dependent on the vedor to tell me it's safe - but my wife may well want to sue if it turns out that the el cheapo stuff I got off Amazon ends up killing me... and you have to wonder whether the vendor has the wherewithal to handle that kind of thing - cos most of them sure as hell ain't testing the juice...

[thescot]

Maybe there should be an exam so before you vape you have to know about ohms law, volts, battery chemistry and all the other items involved with vaping so you are qualified to vape. Too many people out there throwing whatever atty / carto onto whatever mod they have with whatever battery they can get off of ebay. Do 99% of them know what there doing or understand the possible dangers ...i don't think so. When i started vaping 6v was buzz with everyone stacking batteries and some with 36mg e-liquid taking vaping to the extreme at even higher voltages. The 6v buzz seems to have died down somewhat possibly due to these forums where people come to learn the dangers.
The vendor does have a responsibility to sell working goods which are up to standard but the user has to know what the risks involved with ALL the equipment they are using to vape with. No electronic or battery operated item is built to last.
For those who are reading this just take a minute to think what atty/carto you have on your device...have you tested your mod to check it is giving the correct output under load against what you atty ohm rating is? Is it correct? Does your atty need changing? are you batteries in good condition? is your charger in good nick, is your device designed for what your using it for? have you screwed your atty on too tight, is there juice getting inside the battery housing?
Just a few examples of where i'm coming from in that are we as vapers qualified to vape? Do we have enough knowledge to know when something is past its best and need replacing, maybe we just don't give a toss and want the cheapest part available but if they fcuk up then we sue the pants off the vendor ..........to many variables me thinks for a good court case

Me.... well i want to vape to get my nicotine fix instead of using real cigs. If i buy a product that is faulty then i'll look for a replacement or refund without the need to sue. If it blew up in my hand which is very doubtful as i would check for vent holes, use the correct batteries and maintain my equipment. If it did then its a risk i'm willing to take just like my father did when he dropped his cigarette down the side of the sofa when he was pissed and set the place up in fire and he didn't try to sue B&H.

Edit: This was written whilst hifi was posting his last message but i guess were both making the reference to whether the vaper is qualified to be using the equipment associated with vaping.

[hifistud]

I'm questioning whether a lot of folk are qualified to take all sorts of risks without clear and accurate directions and warnings from vendors and manufacturers, and also whether there's adequate funds available should a user be rendered unable to work or earn as a result of negligence.

There are loads of folks out there that never use forums and take the word of their vendor of choice as to suitability and fitness for purpose. And I do wonder, given the nature of some of the claims you see, just how "ethical" those vendors might be - and for clarity, I'm not referring to any of the vendors I see hereabouts. I do, though, know of one who got hauled up by TS for selling dangerous chargers and adapters that would pass no safety test this side of Beijing...

[ragjoy]

ref to the last 2 posts: what you are really stating are all the reasons (apart from the nicotine) why it will be banned.
if there is no sort of guarantee that the equipment is idiot proff it shouldnt really be on the market (thats what EU regs will state)

as for comments such as would you sue fords if you put diesel in your petrol fiesta, no of course you wouldnt.
but if the same car leaked petrol due to the cap not fitting correctly and it blew up and killed your kids then i think you would sue.
its easy to use examples such as the chain saw with no guard but there are so many examples of the reverse of that like the guard falls off and a twig knocks your eye out.
the way i see it is if you want safe you buy what is best which you expect to get from a reputable seller in my case both elements were unsafe to the point they could have taken an eye out or burnt the house down.
at the end of the day it is really down to negligence and who has been negligent.
take toyota as a prime example with there major cover up a year or so back.
the thing with ecigs and the batteries we use is they are all potentially a bomb in waiting and should be treated as such.
personally i dont know where i really sit on this issue, potentially with all the combos involved and the zero knowledge i have its an accident waiting to happen, which is one reason i use AW batteries on a ggtb with 901s only which i consider to be a safe set up.
i have just re read the above and its pretty garbled but i expect you get what i mean.
raggy..........

[thescot]

Sorry rag i have to disagree with on e-cig being banned for the reasons we mentioned.
There is too much battery operated items out there used on a daily basis like a toothbrush to name just one. If we wanted we could sell the exact same mods with a light/laser adapter and call it a torch to get around selling mods.
There's too many people sue for this sue for that when more responsibility needs to be taken by the user to make sure everything they are doing to get the nic fix is as safe as possible. No one tells you stick a ciggy in your mouth, light it and suck the smoke into your lungs but most of us have done it knowing the possible dangers. Slightly different i know with batteries / attys and all the other things e-cig related the user must be willing to take some responsibility for wanting to vape. Your one of the very few who have suffered an accident e-cig related but that could have been a torch and they wont ban them. I don't know all the details of your incident but it wont be the last. Leaving the chinese aside i'm sure most of the manufacturers who make mods and stuff try to make the safest product they can but there will always be failures with any battery operated equipment. Buying stuff from China is a different case and thats a different subject for another day.
Just me ...but... i know the possible risks associated with vaping and willing to take them just like i am when using my battery shaver, tooth brush and mobile phone ...there will always be failures but who will care when we all get brain damage from using our mobile phones ....lol

[ragjoy]

Jun 29, 2011 7:32:09 GMT @thescot said:

Sorry rag i have to disagree with on e-cig being banned for the reasons we mentioned.
There is too much battery operated items out there used on a daily basis like a toothbrush to name just one. If we wanted we could sell the exact same mods with a light/laser adapter and call it a torch to get around selling mods.
There's too many people sue for this sue for that when more responsibility needs to be taken by the user to make sure everything they are doing to get the nic fix is as safe as possible. No one tells you stick a ciggy in your mouth, light it and suck the smoke into your lungs but most of us have done it knowing the possible dangers. Slightly different i know with batteries / attys and all the other things e-cig related the user must be willing to take some responsibility for wanting to vape. Your one of the very few who have suffered an accident e-cig related but that could have been a torch and they wont ban them. I don't know all the details of your incident but it wont be the last. Leaving the chinese aside i'm sure most of the manufacturers who make mods and stuff try to make the safest product they can but there will always be failures with any battery operated equipment. Buying stuff from China is a different case and thats a different subject for another day.
Just me ...but... i know the possible risks associated with vaping and willing to take them just like i am when using my battery shaver, tooth brush and mobile phone ...there will always be failures but who will care when we all get brain damage from using our mobile phones ....lol

fair comment scot.
you are right about my experience, the same charger and similar batteries could have been for many things.
but you wouldnt buy a tootbrush, phone or razor etc that the bloke next door had knocked up.
but with vaping it seems completely different,the man next door says he can knock you up a gadget that does this or that that another ecig dont do and we are all saying i want one, which is mad really.
i wasnt really saying home made mods will cause the ban, what i mean is it could be used as an argument that potentially dangerous products are being made at home and sold online etc etc.
i dont really have an axe to grind either way really, infact most modders produce safe products as would any genuine enthusiast would.

raggy.......

[collie2011]

I understand where you are coming from but take pc's for example. The guy next door (or in my case in my living room lol) has been pulling pc's apart and swapping and changing bits in his for years to get the best set up. He has built pc's for people too and then there are those that overclock there machines to get more out of them. These days with any kind of technology there will be those that try to modify and take it one step further. The guys at mikes work jailbreak phones and do all sorts to them, if you buy one you take the risk that it might have a few glitches as it has been fiddled with.

[hifistud]

A few glitches, though, do not equate to the possibility of physical injury.

That said, in my business life, I have either built PCs myself - accepting all responsibility as to fitness for purpose and reliability - or have bought known makes with specific warranty and backup profiles, and have, also, been very specific about what they'll be used for and for how long - the performance I need to have fulfilled - on the basis that any interruption to my ability to work would have cost money, and, were it the manufacturer's negligence to blame, I may wish to file a claim.

While I might jailbreak an iPhone if it were a phone for my own personal use, there's no way I'd jailbreak one for business use where it was pivotal to being able to do business.

[collie2011]

I understand where you are coming from hifi, my point was more that no matter what the technology there will always be people out there who will try to mod it or make it better. It's almost a hobby for some people. Any non standard product that you buy you are taking a risk with it, even simple stuff like taking a phone to the guy in the market that unlocks phones, there are no guarantees with it. If I did that or bought a modified piece of kit, I accept the responsibility that if anything goes wrong then it was my fault. I do actually know a guy I used to work with who had his pc overclocked and it overheated and set on fire he accepted though that he had taken the risk of overclocking it to get better gaming performance from it and didn't blame the guy who had done it.

[safercigs]

Jun 28, 2011 21:49:05 GMT hifistud said:

9pm BST, www.vapourtrails.tv - phone in on 0117 2302 794 or skype me on hifistud from 9pm...

i look forward to this as i feel this could go on and on and as a supplier i want to be doing the right course of action for my customers to give both them and myself peace of mind.

Thank you for taking this on hifistud

[hifistud]

Jun 29, 2011 9:15:36 GMT safercigs said:

Jun 28, 2011 21:49:05 GMT hifistud said:

9pm BST, www.vapourtrails.tv - phone in on 0117 2302 794 or skype me on hifistud from 9pm...

i look forward to this as i feel this could go on and on and as a supplier i want to be doing the right course of action for my customers to give both them and myself peace of mind.

Thank you for taking this on hifistud

No problem - I think it's one of the most important threads we've had for a while - it would almost be criminal not to take it on!!

I'd love it if you'd participate, too - I really want to get all sides of the debate.