Is it me... Or have we just crossed a line...

[a1laserboy]

The employers aren't asked, they make the rules according to law and public perception. M&S is a company all to itself.

I can't see it'd go down very well if a company that sells pork refuses to employ a Muslim or Jew because it could become an issue with that persons beliefs sometime after they take them on. Catch 22 I think.

I don't know about the daily mail or any other rag, I don't read them or have any political views influenced by anyone except myself

[giles]

Update - from the Independent -

Marks & Spencer appeared to backtrack last night by issuing an apology after a Muslim member of staff refused to serve a customer trying to buy champagne.

Previously the supermarket said Muslim staff can refuse to serve customers who are trying to buy pork or alcohol.

But a spokesperson for M&S last night said: "Where we have an employee whose religious beliefs restrict food or drink they can handle, we work closely with our member of staff to place them in suitable role, such as in our clothing department or bakery in foods.

"As a secular business we have an inclusive policy that welcomes all religious beliefs, whether across our customer or employee base... We apologise that this policy was not followed in the case reported."

[Deleted]

Look if their religious delusions are so strong they will trust 'allah' or whoever not to give them customers who buy alcohol or pork. I am a christian and try and keep the Sabbath 'holy' and I trust the Lord that when I do get a job I won't have to work Sabbath (sunday) because that is a holy day to me. If not he'll provide for all my need regardless.

So M+S wrong yes, Daily Fail, right (can I believe I'm saying this? ). I wouldn't work in a pub because I don't like folk getting intoxicated not because I'm anti alcohol but I would work in a corner shop as regardless, retail is retail and what they do once they are outside the shop is not my concern. Not least when the corner shop probably doesn't just sell alcohol or cigs. I'm not anti alcohol (didn't Jesus turn water into wine) but I'm am anti drunkenness. For the same reason I wouldn't work in a night club.

Moslems have a choice. I know many of the fundies won't even work because that involves paying taxes to the infidel and swindle us in benefit claims.

So yeah that's just my two pennyworth from a christian (probably to many of you sounding like though I disagree) fundamentalist view point

[Perpetua]

Employers make allowances for faith all the time, well the good ones do anyway . . . we've a lad who is a Jehovah's Witness and doesn't celebrate Christmas. So while the rest of us are required to wear a Christmas uniform, he isn't. Which is absolutely fine by me and my other colleagues.

We either accept that we live in a multi racial/faith society in this country, or accept that certain allowances are going to wind us up. I have elderly parents, that I'm ashamed to say are the biggest bigots on the planet. Live and let live isn't part of their philosophy.

Where I get wound up, is when we aren't extended the same tolerances in other countries. But as a respectful nation as a whole, we abide by the host countries traditions, so all credit to us.

My opinions are of course purely my own.

[chris86]

Dec 23, 2013 2:48:35 GMT @johanino said:

Look if their religious delusions are so strong they will trust 'allah' or whoever not to give them customers who buy alcohol or pork. I am a christian and try and keep the Sabbath 'holy' and I trust the Lord that when I do get a job I won't have to work Sabbath (sunday) because that is a holy day to me. If not he'll provide for all my need regardless.

So M+S wrong yes, Daily Fail, right (can I believe I'm saying this? ). I wouldn't work in a pub because I don't like folk getting intoxicated not because I'm anti alcohol but I would work in a corner shop as regardless, retail is retail and what they do once they are outside the shop is not my concern. Not least when the corner shop probably doesn't just sell alcohol or cigs. I'm not anti alcohol (didn't Jesus turn water into wine) but I'm am anti drunkenness. For the same reason I wouldn't work in a night club.

Moslems have a choice. I know many of the fundies won't even work because that involves paying taxes to the infidel and swindle us in benefit claims.

So yeah that's just my two pennyworth from a christian (probably to many of you sounding like though I disagree) fundamentalist view point

I’m not a Christian, but as far as I’m aware Jesus taught that you should love and respect your neighbour. So if your neighbour asks you to be accommodating to beliefs that are important to him and doing what he asks will only cause you minor inconvenience, it seems to me that the kind and Christian thing to do would be to respect his wishes, even if his beliefs differ from your own.


I also think that people are more likely to be respectful and accommodating towards your beliefs if you treat them in this way, and that the world would be a better place if people with different beliefs were more tolerant of each other’s practices and didn’t label each other as ‘delusional’. It strikes me that there’s something seriously wrong with a society that sees a company treating the beliefs of its employees with respect and consideration as a bad thing, which is why I find the ‘news’ in papers like the Daily Mail quite disturbing.

[daveyboy37]

Dec 23, 2013 2:48:35 GMT @johanino said:

Moslems have a choice. I know many of the fundies won't even work because that involves paying taxes to the infidel and swindle us in benefit claims.

Or indeed...
Moslems Brits have a choice. I know many of the fundies Brits won't even work because that involves paying taxes to the infidel Government and swindle us in benefit claims.

I'm not really sure what significance religious belief has in this.

[deesigner]

In my work I have to attend training on valuing diversity. I enjoy this training and learning about the needs of children from different cultures and I treat each child in my care accordingly.

I've spent a lot of time in the Gambia and have never had a problem being served either alcohol or bacon, the majority of Gambians may not eat pork or drink alcohol but they have no problem serving it to customers.

I understand that the majority of muslims who live and work in this country still adhere to their religion which they have every right to do. But if you chose to work in a store that sells alcohol and pork you should understand that you may be required to serve customers with these items. You know what is expected of you when you take the job.

It's very unlikely that a vegetarian would take a job in an abatoir, so if you're a muslim and stick strictly to your religion don't take a job in a supermarket type store unless you've got an agreement that you won't have to work on the meat counter or tills!

I'm an atheist, but that doesn't mean I don't respect what others believe in, I can still foster a child that is muslim, christian or whatever and will do the best to my endeavor to make sure their beliefs are encouraged and adhered to.

[Deleted]

Well said deesigner

[ausfost]

i used to work in the Chemotherapy unit years ago and a colleague of mine who was responsible for organising and administering blood transfusions was a Jehovah's witness. i found it strange that she would be doing something that was contrary to her beliefs so i asked her why. Her explanation: Although she did not agree/believe it was the right thing for her, it was not for her to object or dissuade others from making their own choices according to their own beliefs as long as it was not harming others.

i still found it bizarre that a person would work in an environment where they would actively participate in something that went against their beliefs, but as i believe in nothing other than getting through the week and paying the bills without getting in trouble with the good lady wife and being able to go and get trousered at the weekend who am i to judge?

[oldleatherlungs]

If you are a Muslim shop owner and you sell bacon or alcohol then you are breaking that other law that some of our fellow citizens would like us to adopt.

LINKY

[farzooks]

Dec 23, 2013 0:09:39 GMT archiecat said:

Having recently spent 6 months working in the predominantly Muslim country of Indonesia, I would like to say that the non extremist, the huge majority of Muslims, are the nicest people I have worked with.
We need to be careful about categorising people, the Nazis were mostly Christians!

Bingo! It's always the vocal, atteention-seeking and trouble-making minority that get all focus. I'm sure there were/are Christians who went down like a lead brick in furrin climes when they set about trying to change local ways to suit themselves. Not a way to be very popular, whoever they may be and no matter what background they're from.

I suppose it's just a variation of NIMBY-ism, only it's now INMBYN-ism (It's Now My Back Yard).

[suede]

Just showed this to the lads i the 24/7 garage. All devout Muslim. They pissed themselves laughing.

[Raffles]

Crikey, this thread has grown a bit since last night. Seems a bit of common sense has prevailed, and employers should not put their staff in positions where either they will be embarrassed or embarrass their customers. Also staff should be open and honest about what they are or are not prepared to do when applying for a job.

[fiddles]

Raffles you stirring up a storm again

Sorry you are on Santas Naughty list, your present will have to be returned unopened

[Raffles]

fiddles... just as well, my ticker wouldn't take opening THAT pressie!