Problem Atomisers

[GunJack]

Dec 30, 2013 9:08:23 GMT Perpetua said:

Dec 30, 2013 8:54:31 GMT GunJack said:

hmmm....I just gave away 5 iClear16s 'coz I couldn't get them to work properly, and I SOOO wanted them to, as when they did work correctly they were a great vape. But, leaks, wicking issues and dry hits put me right off. Using Protank-II and evod now, but really prefer the vape from a top-coil

I don't understand that GJ . . . Iclear16's have been the easiest of clearo's I've ever used, the odd swoosh when my VG heavy juice runs low and that's all I do to them.

maybe I was just unlucky Perpetua got them from FT but looked genuine Innokin... might try again at some point from myepack, slip one in with kanger heads order (I really CBA re-coiling any more)....

[Deleted]

Dec 30, 2013 8:54:31 GMT GunJack said:

Dec 30, 2013 8:18:39 GMT @freefromsmoking said:

To all those who don't have the time or can't be ar$ed or simply don't have the dexterity to recoil and set up an RBA .... buy either an Aspire or one of the Innokin iClears and simply change the head at least every two weeks ... it really doesn't get any easier to achieve a consistent, leak, gurgle and dry hit free vape than that .... if even that is too much effort, then I'm sorry to say it but vaping is not for you.

hmmm....I just gave away 5 iClear16s 'coz I couldn't get them to work properly, and I SOOO wanted them to, as when they did work correctly they were a great vape. But, leaks, wicking issues and dry hits put me right off. Using Protank-II and evod now, but really prefer the vape from a top-coil

It would be interesting to know how the person(s) that you gave them to got on with them   ....   I used iclears (16 and 30) exclusively for over 5 months and I can say, hand on heart, that I never had a single problem with any of them  ...  it is a mystery how some folk can have no problems with a particular clearo while others just can't get on with it ... since moving away from clearos to RBAs, I have come to the conclusion that, while there are some devices that are inherently badly designed, most problems arise from user error.

[Perpetua]

Dec 30, 2013 9:12:00 GMT GunJack said:

Dec 30, 2013 9:08:23 GMT Perpetua said:

I don't understand that GJ . . . Iclear16's have been the easiest of clearo's I've ever used, the odd swoosh when my VG heavy juice runs low and that's all I do to them.

maybe I was just unlucky Perpetua got them from FT but looked genuine Innokin... might try again at some point from myepack, slip one in with kanger heads order (I really CBA re-coiling any more)....

Mine are Fasttech GJ, got them in with the Itaste some months ago . . . I'm still only on the second head as well.

Though I'm with you on the re-coiling thing, Spheroid and drippers are all I tend to bother with thesedays.

[Raffles]

+1 for the Iclear16

[GunJack]

Dec 30, 2013 9:12:18 GMT @freefromsmoking said:

It would be interesting to know how the person(s) that you gave them to got on with them   ....   I used iclears (16 and 30) exclusively for over 5 months and I can say, hand on heart, that I never had a single problem with any of them  ...  it is a mystery how some folk can have no problems with a particular clearo while others just can't get on with it ... since moving away from clearos to RBAs, I have come to the conclusion that, while there are some devices that are inherently badly designed, most problems arise from user error.

Work colleague, so won't find out until next week, but I was thinking the same re: how he gets on with them. The vaping community in my place now outnumber the smokers, so have a good spread of opinion/experience. I personally had swapped all the component parts around, cut extra notches in the rubber coil covers to encourage juice flow, not screwing the drip tips down too tight, using them with & without 510-ego adapters, and on egos, twists and mods, but nothing seemed to work properly..... don't know about user error, think I exhausted pretty much all options

[chykensa]

My enigmatic vaping mate James, who I have mentioned many times before, uses a couple of Protanks like me. Whilst I have no leakage problems whatsoever, he is plagued, as well as gurgling.
I have passed on to him the 'bogroll down the spout' technique for clearing out the condensation, and this has helped a great deal, but his tanks still gurgle.
I realised yesterday when we went for a clifftop walk together (more about this at some point!!) that he habitually keeps his batt+att in his jeans pocket, and I suggested that this wasn't perhaps the best place to keep them. He agreed that he would put them in a coat pocket (he's not a coat sort of person!) to see if things improved.
As mentioned above, I wonder if user error is the main contributory factor to these devices failing so often. I treat mine with care at all times, and they seem to be pretty foolproof. I have iClear 16s which are perfect every vape, and my Protanks (which I recoil myself) go on and on, although the threads on one base seem to be wearing a bit now.
I am toying with the idea of getting an RBA but then read horror stories about how difficult they are and get put off again. May pick up an FT RSST just to see how it goes but in the meantime am going to try my AGA-T again with microcoil and CW just to see if this works. As long as clearos and tanks are carefully used, cleaned out regularly, and maintained properly, they cause no worries for me.
I do take the points above absolutely though: the technology is still in its infancy and new devices appear almost every week. Surely there must be a design out there which would be absolutely foolproof for every user, in the same way as a straight cigarette is, and which functions as it should as a matter of routine.
If any manufacturer is reading this thread, here's your chance to clean up the market. Kanger have gone a long way as have Innokin, but there's still room for improvement. Maybe 2014 will be the year that the reliable long-lasting clearomiser makes its mark!!

[markm]

It is always a compromise, as things develop they get better - the devices can
cope with a wider range of all the variables. The thing is the user is the biggest
variable of all. When I first started I was amazed at how I had to adapt the way
I used each new device, I still need to do this to some extent but now I don't
think about it that much, I just adapt automatically.
High end devices - rebuildables - have a learning curve partly because you are making
some of the important elements yourself, but mostly because we all want/need them
to be fine tuned to our preferred way of using them. This is why even the most expensive
and highly regarded devices have endless different ways of setting them up, even then
there isn't anything that suits everyone.

I'm happy that there can never be one solution that will fit all occasions for all users,
it would be the end of development.

[chykensa]

I quite agree markm but I do take the point the OP made about a reliable device that just works. I, like many on this forum, enjoy the fiddling around to get the best out of my atties, but there are a large proportion who can't afford the time or patience, or for whom the fine detailed work is too much due to arthritis or similar. the market must cater for these users by selling a cheap reliable clearomiser which reduces the number of variables so that it just functions as the user requires each and every time. No leaking, gurgles, dry hits, easily replaceable heads, etc. I know that the simple Vision CE4/5 or the iClear16 do all this, and even the Vivi Novas are/were pretty foolproof, but not perfect yet, any of them.
I do think that users need to be fair to themselves and ensure that they buy the original item however; there are so many copies (let's not open that can of worms again here!) made by a variety of companies that differ ever so slightly in manufacture and tolerance in measurements. This can only lead to problems when heads are not quite interchangeable, leading to leaks. Care in maintenance and use go a long way too - maybe we expect a bit too much from this quite delicate technology.
I do agree that variables are important, and I can't see that the markets for middle- and top-end RBAs will ever cease, but there is a place for something robust, reliable and relatively affordable for the masses who want to convert easily and painlessly.

[Fockskey]

I started this thread to find out what other people had problems with regarding atomisers, and it has been a great insight into how we have differing opinions. The whole vaping idea is very modular in design, which will lead to a plethora of different designs, most of us will be happy to tinker around with these designs to get the best out of them, but there are some that just want to vape with the minimum of effort. I also think that many of the tinkerers will stop tinkering in the future, because that is in our nature and we will get bored, myself included.

This is why I want to find a few atomisers that will be reliable in the future with minimal fuss. Any manufacturer that cracks this nut will make a lot of money. Sure there will always be a core of people who will carry on with the tinkering, but they will become the few and be devotees to the small mod makers.

Until the boredom sets in I will just carry on in my quest of ideal Attie's,

[daveyboy37]

Dec 30, 2013 11:42:34 GMT Fockskey said:

I started this thread to find out what other people had problems with regarding atomisers, and it has been a great insight into how we have differing opinions.

Never a truer statement. For every "expert" you-tube review saying for example (with the Aspire)...Is this the best clearo ever? There will be 50 posts on various forums suggesting its possibly the leakiest/most unreliable* device ever made.
In the same way, for every 10 people who love the iClear/Protanks/Other* (DELETE AS APPROPRIATE) there are probably the same number who hate them.

[chris86]

I think that the development of a simple, affordable, 100% reliable clearo that works every time would be a blessing for new vapers and those who don't like fiddling, but I also wonder whether it would be possible to design easy, foolproof options for high end RBA's.

In theory, it seems that you could make a good wick and coil setup for a high end RBA, put it in a suitable replaceable housing unit, and stick it in the atty. Replacing the coils on an RBA would then be no more difficult than changing the head on a protank. Those who like rebuilding would still have the option to do so, but others could just buy replacement heads and fit them when needed. More people could enjoy vaping RBA's and the market for high-end devices would expand.

To me, it seems obvious that manufacturers should aim to provide something like this. But they don't, which suggests that they're only targeting a small group of enthusiasts who enjoy rebuilding rather than all the consumers who would be willing to pay a bit more money in order to get a top-quality vape with minimal effort.

[djs]

The full-sized Protank is at the bottom of my vaping list.

I re-wick it myself with FAR more wick than the stock heads, and it vapes fine. Same for smok ARO.

However, I don't really have the time or energy to do this often, so mostly they are unused.

I've been using a T3S for 5 months. Not a moment's bother from it, until yesterday when it went mad after I left it in the centre console of my car (on it's side) being shaken at 70 mph.

[boyofford]

Dec 30, 2013 2:24:40 GMT chris86 said:

Dec 30, 2013 1:49:12 GMT seniorphil said:

I am doing that for fellow members at our January meet, alas in London. It also serves as a live tutorial to convert the world to the ways of shiny .
Others did the same for me back in September, and I did my first rebuild the following morning.

That's a very kind and helpful thing to do, but I feel that it doesn't quite get to the root of the problem, which is that most high-end vaping gear has a steep learning curve and requires a fair bit of effort to master. I think that this is really holding us back, because while some people enjoy fiddling with things, there are many others who don't.  

A cigarette is an incredibly simple device. You just stick it in your mouth, light it and inhale - it works every time. And that remains the case whether you're smoking a cheap roll-up or an expensive luxury brand. In my opinion, the world of vaping should aim to make products that are equally reliable and user-friendly. But every clearomizer I've ever used has had problems to some extent, whether it's dry hits, leaking or gurgling. Some are better than others, but none are 100% reliable. Cartomizers are no better because they're fiddly to fill and start to taste horrible very quickly, plus the pre-filled ones are expensive, with a limited range of flavours.  

I've no doubt that rebuildables are more reliable, but they don't solve the basic problem. Smoking offers immediate gratification, and that's what I want from vaping. I just want something that works every time with little or no effort, and rebuildables don't provide that. I really enjoy the experience of vaping and trying out new flavours, but I find the lack of a simple, reliable, faff-free atty with pre-made coils and wicks incredibly frustrating. 
Ok, rant over. I'm going to suck on my gurgly leaky clearo and flounce off to bed now!  

I've got to admit the first kit I had was poor, random poor quality evod type clone, it leaked and the clearo went in the bin after days, the battery followed few weeks later.
If I hadn't found this forum and had a mate at work proving caping could work, I would of probably gone back to the cigs, though probably was unlucky with kit.

The one thing I would say with the low end newbie vape equipment is it should have more instructions including troubleshooting with it(though myepack stuff is better) so newbies who aint going to scan internet know what they are doing.

But Protank minis and iclears16s have been great. Protank is perhaps slightly less newbie friendly as need to keep on top of coils but iclear16s just runs and runs.
They both have minor problems, protank and clearo have been known to gurgle but not a biggy for me.

Couple of people who have tried and not carried on with vaping that I know of (via friends) have not really given it a chance, stopped after week blaming symptoms they had on vaping rather than stopping smoking, not because of kit.

[chris86]

Dec 30, 2013 14:22:41 GMT boyofford said:

Dec 30, 2013 2:24:40 GMT chris86 said:

That's a very kind and helpful thing to do, but I feel that it doesn't quite get to the root of the problem, which is that most high-end vaping gear has a steep learning curve and requires a fair bit of effort to master. I think that this is really holding us back, because while some people enjoy fiddling with things, there are many others who don't.  

A cigarette is an incredibly simple device. You just stick it in your mouth, light it and inhale - it works every time. And that remains the case whether you're smoking a cheap roll-up or an expensive luxury brand. In my opinion, the world of vaping should aim to make products that are equally reliable and user-friendly. But every clearomizer I've ever used has had problems to some extent, whether it's dry hits, leaking or gurgling. Some are better than others, but none are 100% reliable. Cartomizers are no better because they're fiddly to fill and start to taste horrible very quickly, plus the pre-filled ones are expensive, with a limited range of flavours.  

I've no doubt that rebuildables are more reliable, but they don't solve the basic problem. Smoking offers immediate gratification, and that's what I want from vaping. I just want something that works every time with little or no effort, and rebuildables don't provide that. I really enjoy the experience of vaping and trying out new flavours, but I find the lack of a simple, reliable, faff-free atty with pre-made coils and wicks incredibly frustrating. 
Ok, rant over. I'm going to suck on my gurgly leaky clearo and flounce off to bed now!  

I've got to admit the first kit I had was poor, random poor quality evod type clone, it leaked and the clearo went in the bin after days, the battery followed few weeks later.
If I hadn't found this forum and had a mate at work proving caping could work, I would of probably gone back to the cigs, though probably was unlucky with kit.

The one thing I would say with the low end newbie vape equipment is it should have more instructions including troubleshooting with it(though myepack stuff is better) so newbies who aint going to scan internet know what they are doing.

But Protank minis and iclears16s have been great. Protank is perhaps slightly less newbie friendly as need to keep on top of coils but iclear16s just runs and runs.
They both have minor problems, protank and clearo have been known to gurgle but not a biggy for me.

Couple of people who have tried and not carried on with vaping that I know of (via friends) have not really given it a chance, stopped after week blaming symptoms they had on vaping rather than stopping smoking, not because of kit.

I might try the iclears then, because they get good reviews and I haven't had much experience with top coil clearos except CE4's and Vivi Nova's, both of which weren't great for me. 

My gripe isn't against vaping in general, which I enjoy, but with the lack of consistency and reliability in a lot of products. I definitely intend to keep on vaping and won't be going back to the cigs, but just wish that the devices were a bit more faff-free and user-friendly. 

[giles]

seniorphil and @tazmania441 my guess is that your friends suck much harder than you do, and are pulling more juice in than the coil can burn. You could suggest that they fire the protank for 5 seconds or so before drawing on it, then they can get the vapour without sucking so hard.