Thanks SNP

[Bobsbeer]

While I live in England I give thanks to the SNP for their support in stopping the changes to the fox hunting ban.  It seems to have caused a bit of a stir amongst the toffs who think a dog tearing apart a fox is sport.  So much so that the Cons have put back the vote until they can engineer a way to stop the SNP from voting on the issue.  I don't doubt that foxes are a pest and cause considerable damage.  When we can send people to the moon and probes to pluto I'm sure we can come up with a way to control foxes without the recourse to sport.  

I'm sorry if it offends anybody on the forum, but those that support the hunting of foxes with a pack of dogs and follow the pack in the hope of seeing a fox torn to shreds are sick.  I have never been a follower of the hunt, but I have witnessed the end of a hunt.  It was sickening to see, and something I will never forget.  So yes, they are sick, perverted individuals.
Well done the SNP. 

[Greg]

The day after a fox has ripped all my chickens apart for fun I'd be more than happy to see the fox receive its just reward in the form of a hound or too.

Secondly i'd never support the SNP, in my view the majority are nationalist bigots. apologies if that offends anyone

[Chrissie]

Got to admit that my heart sank when I heard there was a good chance that the hunting ban would most likely be reformed

However, I also have to admit that though I'm pleased the SNP stepped in to stop the changes , they are being a tad hypocritical as the Scottish hunting laws are very similar to what the Conservatives wanted to bring in

[Greg]

Jul 14, 2015 21:47:37 GMT Chrissie said:

Got to admit that my heart sank when I heard there was a good chance that the hunting ban would most likely be reformed

However, I also have to admit that though I'm pleased the SNP stepped in to stop the changes , they are being a tad hypocritical as the Scottish hunting laws are very similar to what the Conservatives wanted to bring in

A tad 

[Raffles]

Bobsbeer I do support the ban, but the SNP are simply using this as a 'muscle flexing' exercise... they want it both ways.

I know we've got a lot of Scottish members here and I don't want to upset them... BUT... how can you justify influencing the English decisions, and yet expect to be have sole discretion over Scottish issues.

The sooner this is resolved the better... we are a SMALL island and there are far bigger world problems to be resolved.

[Bobsbeer]

Jul 14, 2015 21:47:37 GMT Chrissie said:

 they are being a tad hypocritical as the Scottish hunting laws are very similar to what the Conservatives wanted to bring in

Not quite.  Scotland want to bring in stronger amendments to their law if Nicola Sturgeon is to be believed.  England going back on the law would weaken Scotlands efforts, so I'm happy to support them in this.



Greg wrote "The day after a fox has ripped all my chickens apart for fun I'd be more than happy to see the fox receive its just reward in the form of a hound or too."

I too would be exceedingly angry if that happened to me. I'm not saying foxes don't cause considerable damage. They do. What I find appalling, and yes I find your view appalling too Greg if you think the killing of a fox should be a sport. I'm sorry, but I thought we were supposed to be a civilised society. The Romans thought watching a fellow human being torn apart by lions was sport. Is this that much different?

There must be a way of controlling pests in a manner that removes the threat without the inherent cruelty, and pandering to the blood lust of certain individuals in the name of tradition. It was a sick tradition and it still is.

[Perpetua]

Jul 14, 2015 21:47:37 GMT Chrissie said:

 they are being a tad hypocritical as the Scottish hunting laws are very similar to what the Conservatives wanted to bring in

That's what I thought . . . .

I am pleased however that their input has meant the proposed vote has been delayed, for now.

If foxes are to be controlled because they are a nuisance to livestock, then there are more humane ways of doing so, without turning it into a ' sport ' and ripping an animal to pieces.

The hounds themselves on occasions don't fare so well either, any puppies that aren't considered to be able to make the grade are either shot or clubbed to death. Or dumped at already over stretched Rescue Centres.

[Raffles]

Jul 14, 2015 21:59:23 GMT Perpetua said:

Jul 14, 2015 21:47:37 GMT Chrissie said:

 they are being a tad hypocritical as the Scottish hunting laws are very similar to what the Conservatives wanted to bring in

That's what I thought . . . .

I am pleased however that their input has meant the proposed vote has been delayed, for now.

If foxes are to be controlled because they are a nuisance to livestock, then there are more humane ways of doing so, without turning it into a ' sport ' and ripping an animal to pieces.

The hounds themselves on occasions don't fare so well either, any puppies that aren't considered to be able to make the grade are either shot or clubbed to death. Or dumped at already over stretched Rescue Centres.

A 'like' is not the appropriate response, but you know what I mean.

[*-SARIN-*]

Jul 14, 2015 21:49:20 GMT Raffles said:

Bobsbeer I do support the ban, but the SNP are simply using this as a 'muscle flexing' exercise... they want it both ways.

I know we've got a lot of Scottish members here and I don't want to upset them... BUT... how can you justify influencing the English decisions, and yet expect to be have sole discretion over Scottish issues.

The sooner this is resolved the better... we are a SMALL island and there are far bigger world problems to be resolved.

I have the same opinion, it's a dangerous precedent to set when the SNP can influence and change / block law amendments that apply to England only, the quicker legislation is introduced that stops it the better IMO.  BTW i don't support fox hunting and can't understand why they aren't simply shot, more humane and cheaper.

[Greg]

Nicola sturgeon is certainly not to be believed.

It was cheap political point scoring stunt.

So I'm reading a fox is more important than a dozen chickens that were also torn to shreds and left, interesting views indeed.
Incidentally the fox was hunting down with dogs and guns by the local farmers, I suspect the reason wasn't because of my chickens demise but rather the fear of the loss of their lambs. Different folk have different incentives I guess but the outcome is the same, the fox is no more.
Clearly the farmers view a lamb above a fox too.

[Bobsbeer]

Jul 14, 2015 22:37:03 GMT Greg said:

So I'm reading a fox is more important than a dozen chickens that were also torn to shreds and left, interesting views indeed.
Incidentally the fox was hunting down with dogs and guns by the local farmers, I suspect the reason wasn't because of my chickens demise but rather the fear of the loss of their lambs. Different folk have different incentives I guess but the outcome is the same, the fox is no more.
Clearly the farmers view a lamb above a fox too.

Who is saying that?  I live in a rural location, and have no problem with killing animals for food or other reasons, such as pest control. Killing an animal is not the issue with fox hunting. It's not even about the killing of a fox. I totally agree they are not the cuddly, cute, fluffy animals portrayed in many cartoons etc. They are very successful predators, and cause considerable damage to farmed stock or birds.



The issue is how they are killed. We kill sheep, cows and other animals in abattoirs with humane methods, bolt gun, electric shock etc. We don't chase the animal for miles, and then scare it shitless before we kill it. If the problem is so great that foxes need to be controlled, then we have the technology and the intelligence to devise a better way. What it appears we lack is the will, or at least in some circles.

[charliehorse]

While I would love to do multiple quotes and replies I can't really be bothered so I will say this

Foxes killing chickens "for fun" is a problem that has existed since people started keeping chickens and sometimes they are killing them for food, not fun .... but that should not give humans the right to rip the fox apart using hounds.
Hounds are supposed to be used to flush the fox out, nothing more, though that's not the reality.

Not all SNP voters are nationalist bigots just as not all English/Welsh/Northern Irish nationalist's are bigots.

Apparently the SNP want to amend Scottish law on this to match English law.

Yes, it may have been a muscle flexing exercise but .... If the law is amended in Scotland as has been suggested will peoples opinions change on this issue ?

Why should the English have total influence over what happens in Scotland/Wales and Northern Ireland without the Scottish/Welsh/Northern Irish having influence over what happens in England.

Of course a farmer sees a lamb above a chicken, a lamb is worth more money to the farmer, whatever your views on the subject that's just the way it is.

I find the most hypocritical thing to be the fact that the government has simply postponed the issue till they can figure out a way to get it passed without opposition, surely that is completely against democracy ?? No matter what your view on the fox or the chickens rights.

My opinions only.

[enjay]

Foxes don't kill for fun, if you stick a bunch of chickens in one place it's like a supermarket, they want to kill the lot then drag them all back to feed the family like we do with our ripped up food ready packaged. It's only natural.

I also understand that dogs may want to kill and eat foxes and that's fair enough.

The bit that bothers me is the type of people that want to do the hunting! They would hunt the poor if they could get away with it!

[igual]

As some of you know I used to hunt regularly, be that Peter rabbit,Bambie,pheasent etc 90% of what we shot we ate ( obviously excluding mixie rabbits)
We did alot of human dispatch of injured deer etc.
As nice as it is to see foxes frollicing about in a meadow I have also seen the damage one can do when it gets into a commercial henhouse (over 500 birds dead)
I have no issues in humainly dispatching a fox with a .243 or 6.5x55, I do however disagree totally with hunting by hounds.
I've seen the result several times. I worked on a big estate in stow,and would regularly do my best to piss the local hunt off when they were on my patch
( despite my boss being involved with them ) aniseed oil and rook scarers really confuses a pack of dogs.

[Deleted]

They say it is to control foxes that is utter bullshit. They are breeding the foxes to hunt
www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/feb/17/hunting.ruralaffairs
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2825555/Hunt-workers-caught-video-feeding-foxes-offal-eggs-bid-boost-population-illegal-hunting.html
unemployedtynewear.wordpress.com/2015/06/11/hunts-breeding-foxes-to-hunt/
It's all about their thirst for blood always has and always will be.